Question for Arminians

[Carico]

You believe that all men are enslaved to sin and do not have the ability to believe on Christ unless God regenerates them. But then God condemns those who do not believe, knowing from eternity that they cannot.

That comes from the bible as well, namely 2 Corinthians 4:4, "for the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

And: Romans 8:20, "for the creation was not subjected to frustration by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it in the hope that it will delivered from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

And: Romans 9:22-25, "What if God, choosing to show is wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction?"

So you really need to read the bible so you'll know the difference between God's words and your imagination. If God's word doesn't make sense to you, then instead of changing His word (which includes the above verses) to fit your understanding, you need to change your understanding to fit God's word. :smilewinkgrin:

So again, for the umpteenth time, the whole key is that since no one knows who God's elect are except God Himself, then salvation is open to anyone who wants it. So each man is without excuse since no one can say that God is not drawing him. That reconciles all scripture together.

So As Romans 9:19 says; "Who are you O man, to talk back to God...Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

God alone is almighty and only God is powerful and righteous enough to determine who He wants in His kingdom because he absolutely has the right to create some for noble purposes and others for common use.

 

[Winman]

Rippon, 2 Peter 3:9 makes absolutely no sense if your belief is true. It makes God paradoxal. Why would God be longsuffering for the elect to repent? If God causes a man to repent by regenerating him, God can do this anytime he pleases. Longsuffering means to endure or patiently suffer.

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

And it makes no sense in many other ways. If this is the elect, God already knows they will repent. And if your doctrine is true, they cannot possibly not repent.

And the verse implies by the words "any" and "all" that some of these persons might perish. But that is impossible if Irresistable Grace is true.

What is truly amazing is that you do not see how contradictory your doctrine is to literally hundreds of scriptures. For instance Ezekiel 33:11

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Calvinists say God is sovereign and does what he wants. Here the Lord says he has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. But we know that many will perish and go to Hell. So, if your doctrine is correct, God is contradicting his own self. God could regenerate all men if he has no pleasure in their deaths. This is an oxymoron, a paradox. But the Bible says God is not a God of confusion.

And then God tells these Israelites to turn from their wicked ways, not once, but twice, all the while knowing that they cannot possibly turn from their sins.

Then God asks them why they will die, when God already knows why they will die. They will die because they are sinners and he has not regenerated them.

So, it amazes me how you can believe in a doctrine like this. It makes God to contradict his own self many hundreds of times in the scriptures.

 

[Carico]

And it makes no sense in many other ways. If this is the elect, God already knows they will repent. And if your doctrine is true, they cannot possibly not repen

first of all, the only way you can know if our doctrine is true is not only to read the whole bible but study it as well. then you will see all over the place that everything God does is; "then they will know that I and the Lord." that's his purpose.

Secondly, again, since only God knows who his elect are, then no one can say that God is not drawing him. I used to be an unbeliever and I did not know that God was drawing me. So I was as much without excuse as anyone else in the world is because I was wrong, God was drawing me. :smilewinkgrin: So in those whom God is drawing, he gives the desire for him. But that might not be until close to their deathbed. But in those whom God is not drawing, they literally could care less if they come to God. Just go to an atheist forum some time and you'll see that that's the case. that indeed makes hell fair and just.

 

[Winman]

first of all, the only way you can know if our doctrine is true is not only to read the whole bible but study it as well. then you will see all over the place that everything God does is; "then they will know that I and the Lord." that's his purpose.

Secondly, again, since only God knows who his elect are, then no one can say that God is not drawing him. I used to be an unbeliever and I did not know that God was drawing me. So I was as much without excuse as anyone else in the world is because I was wrong, God was drawing me. :smilewinkgrin: So in those whom God is drawing, he gives the desire for him. But that might not be until close to their deathbed. But in those whom God is not drawing, they literally could care less if they come to God. Just go to an atheist forum some time and you'll see that that's the case. that indeed makes hell fair and just.

I do read the Bible and quote scripture all the time. I very rarely see any scriptures from Calvinists, they more often tend to quote men.

Jesus said he would draw all men.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Now, that is a very simple and straightforward verse. Even a small child could understand it. But Calvinist claim it is only speaking of the elect. Well, then why didn't Jesus say he would draw all the elect? God uses the word "elect" many times in the Bible, if your doctrine is correct then God is being misleading because it simply says "all men"

And we know that not all who are called or drawn are chosen (elect).

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

In the parable of the wedding feast Jesus clearly shows that God calls many men, but man has the ability to resist or refuse.

Matt 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Here God calls and bids men to the wedding, but vs 3 says they would not come. So again he sent servants to invite men to the wedding and they made excuses.

And this made the king (God) very angry and he destroyed them.

You can listen to the doctrines of men if you choose, but the Bible clearly teaches that God calls and draws all men. But men have the ability to resist and refuse God, and that God will destroy those who do not come when he calls. But those who do come are then "elected".

You must always meet a set of conditions to be elected. We didn't make Obama President, and then afterward he had to meet the conditions of the office. No, first he had to qualify under our laws, then he had to win the Electoral College. Then, and only then did he become the President Elect. This is how elections work. God choose from the beginning of time that those who would answer his call and choose to believe on Christ would be the elect.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I do read the Bible and quote scripture all the time. I very rarely see any scriptures from Calvinists, they more often tend to quote men.

Does this mischaracterization make you feel better and feel like your correct? I have addressed your Scriptures, and shared many. I have never in my posts quoted a man. Not that I have any problem with it, have done it in the past to make a point, et. But in these convo with you I have not.

You can listen to the doctrines of men if you choose, but the Bible clearly teaches that God calls and draws all men. But men have the ability to resist and refuse God, and that God will destroy those who do not come when he calls.

What we keep reminding you is that we have listened to God in the Scriptures and find that teaching like yours and others are not saying the same thing as the Scripture is teaching.

 

[Carico]

Again, you try to make the bible contradict itself. So you ignore the verses we quote and only believe the verses you quote.

So again, Put ALL scripture together, which includes John 6:63-65 so that it does not contradict the verse you quoted. That includes all of Romans 9, all of the OT and put them together with the verses you quoted so they you will not make scripture contradict itself.

So put the verses you quoted together with, "You did not choose me but I chose you." After you have reconciled them together, then we can discuss them. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Winman]

Does this mischaracterization make you feel better and feel like your correct? I have addressed your Scriptures, and shared many. I have never in my posts quoted a man. Not that I have any problem with it, have done it in the past to make a point, et. But in these convo with you I have not.



What we keep reminding you is that we have listened to God in the Scriptures and find that teaching like yours and others are not saying the same thing as the Scripture is teaching.

With all respect, your quotation of Spurgeon in your signature shows where you stand on free will. How about showing a scripture that proves that man does not have free will? I can show you a scripture that shows man does have free will.

Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

And I was not bragging about how much I read or study the scriptures to begin with. I was answering Carico's comment:

first of all, the only way you can know if our doctrine is true is not only to read the whole bible but study it as well. then you will see all over the place that everything God does is; "then they will know that I and the Lord." that's his purpose.

He is the one that suggested I need to read the whole Bible "but study it as well"

Someone before said reading is fundamental. That is not true, there needs to be comprehension as well.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

With all respect, your quotation of Spurgeon in your signature shows where you stand on free will. How about showing a scripture that proves that man does not have free will? I can show you a scripture that shows man does have free will.

Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

And I was not bragging about how much I read or study the scriptures to begin with. I was answering Carico's comment:



He is the one that suggested I need to read the whole Bible "but study it as well"

Someone before said reading is fundamental. That is not true, there needs to be comprehension as well.

There is nothing wrong with having a quote. There is nothing wrong with a commentary.

I love that quote from Spurgeon because he understood the Scirpture correctly in that regard.

How about not asking me to establish your strawman for you! lol Show you how man doesn't have a free will? This question is either a poor attempt at argumentation, or it shows your complete lack of understanding with those you disagree with.

So here we go, statements with Scripture from which they come:

1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )

2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )


3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )

4._____ When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruptions, he doth not perfectly, nor only will, that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
( Colossians 1:13; John 8:36; Philippians 2:13; Romans 7:15, 18, 19, 21, 23 )

5._____ This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only.

 

[Carico]

With all respect, your quotation of Spurgeon in your signature shows where you stand on free will. How about showing a scripture that proves that man does not have free will? I can show you a scripture that shows man does have free will.

Romans 6, 7:14-25, 8:20, 8:8-9, 9:11-25,
2 Corinthians 4:4,
1 Corinthians 2:14
John 6:63-65
MT. 11:25-27
2 Peter 2:19
John 19;11
Lamentations 3:37

For starters. there are many, many, many more. Now, you need to respond to my thread on demonic spirits so we can see if you think that man is the almighty instead of God. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Winman]

That comes from the bible as well, namely 2 Corinthians 4:4, "for the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

And: Romans 8:20, "for the creation was not subjected to frustration by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it in the hope that it will delivered from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

And: Romans 9:22-25, "What if God, choosing to show is wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction?"

So you really need to read the bible so you'll know the difference between God's words and your imagination. If God's word doesn't make sense to you, then instead of changing His word (which includes the above verses) to fit your understanding, you need to change your understanding to fit God's word. :smilewinkgrin:

So again, for the umpteenth time, the whole key is that since no one knows who God's elect are except God Himself, then salvation is open to anyone who wants it. So each man is without excuse since no one can say that God is not drawing him. That reconciles all scripture together.

So As Romans 9:19 says; "Who are you O man, to talk back to God...Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

God alone is almighty and only God is powerful and righteous enough to determine who He wants in His kingdom because he absolutely has the right to create some for noble purposes and others for common use.

You pull Romans 9:22-25 out of context. Read the whole 9th chapter. It is comparing those who try to attain righteouness through works versus those who come to God through faith.

In verses 22-25 God is saying he has chosen to show mercy on those who come by faith, and wrath on those who try to come any other way. Look at the verses before and after 22-25

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

It is saying that a man is not saved by works or being a descendant of Abraham, but those who believe by faith.

And it shows this again right after vs 22-25

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 9 is not saying God simply chooses whoever he wants to show mercy and others to show wrath. He is saying that he has chosen to show mercy on those who come by faith, and wrath on those who try to attain righteousness through the works of the law, or being a physical descendant of Abraham.

You can't pull verses out of context to prove your doctrine.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You pull Romans 9:22-25 out of context. Read the whole 9th chapter. It is comparing those who try to attain righteouness through works versus those who come to God through faith.

In verses 22-25 God is saying he has chosen to show mercy on those who come by faith, and wrath on those who try to come any other way. Look at the verses before and after 22-25

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

It is saying that a man is not saved by works or being a descendant of Abraham, but those who believe by faith.

And it shows this again right after vs 22-25

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 9 is not saying God simply chooses whoever he wants to show mercy and others to show wrath. He is saying that he has chosen to show mercy on those who come by faith, and wrath on those who try to attain righteousness through the works of the law, or being a physical descendant of Abraham.

You can't pull verses out of context to prove your doctrine.

It very much sounds like it is you, not me or carico, that is reading their doctrine into the Scripture.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

That says it is God, not man's strength or will, but of God...that shows mercy.

Why would you try to make that say something it isn't saying?

 

[Winman]

It very much sounds like it is you, not me or carico, that is reading their doctrine into the Scripture

Hey, you have a Bible, read the entire chapter of Romans 9 and you will see it is contrasting those who believe by faith as opposed to those who try to attain righteouness through the works of the law, and those who believed themselves saved because they were descendants of Abraham.

And this is shown several times in the scriptures.

Matt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Many Jews believed they were saved simply because they were the descendants of Abraham. Here John the Baptist is showing them that is not true. And that is what Paul is showing in Romans 9:

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And Paul is also showing that a man cannot be saved through works. He elaborates more on this in the very next chapter.

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: )

So, the whole discussion in chapters 9 and 10 is contrasting faith versus works or ancestry. God has chosen to save those who come by faith and show them mercy, and has chosen to show wrath to those who claim works or ancestry. Keep those verses in the context of the discussion being made.

And the point is not how you or I read the scriptures, the point is what God is truly saying.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Matt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Yes, being a natural son of Abraham does not make one a part of the Covenant in Christ. A person must be born again. Even from stones can God raise up children to Abraham. I think of Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 here. God takes hearts of stone and makes them hearts of flesh, of both Jew and Gentiles.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And:

9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Therefore, as the Scripture says, it is OF GOD, according to election, but of Him that calleth...NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, that is man.

Rom 9:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: )

The justified are the children of the promise, according to election and Him (God) that calleth, not of him runneth or willeth.

Again, we are consistent with the whole text. Again, it appears to me that you and others are reading your concept of freewill into the text.

 

[webdog]

Need some cheese?

No thanks, I get enough from reading your posts.

 

[Carico]

Romans 9 is not saying God simply chooses whoever he wants to show mercy and others to show wrath. He is saying that he has chosen to show mercy on those who come by faith, and wrath on those who try to attain righteousness through the works of the law, or being a physical descendant of Abraha

So it's man who can boast about his faith and it's by man's own effort and desire, not God's mercy! Man's righteousness has to come first! Well halleluiah! What is God compared to me since I was righteous enough to choose Him?

Boy, God is sure lucky to have someone like me around who is righteous enough to have faith in him. I take credit for every righteous thing because it comes from my own free will. But then why would I need a savior if I'm that righteous? Hm-m I'll have to work on that one. Jesus said he came to heal the sick, not the healthy. That would make sense since the healthy don't need to be healed.

Oh well, all that matters to me is that i can boast about my own righteousness and faith. Those other poor slobs who didn't choose to do the right thing aren't as smart as me. What's wrong with those fools? I guess they aren't as bright as I am. :smilewinkgrin:

God's at my beck and call, not the other way around. I can accept him or tell him to go jump in the river. I guess I have a lot to boast about. It sure is fun! I even have power over God! :thumbs:

So say the Arminians. Their heads are so high in the clouds that I doubt that they'll ever be as humble as a child to come to the cross since they already claim to be righteous on their own. "Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees."

 

[Winman]

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Therefore, as the Scripture says, it is OF GOD, according to election, but of Him that calleth...NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, that is man.

You changed the very scriptures there. It says "not of works". It says nothing of the will in this verse.

Paul is contrasting works verses faith. And that is who God elects, those who come by faith, not of works.

You completely neglected what this verse really says and added an idea of your own.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

"Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved.

Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am.

It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not-that is the difference between me and them." -The prayer of the Arminian, Spurgeon.

That never gets old. lol

 

[Carico]

I'm so glad someone showed me the errors in the bible so now I can re-write it according to Arminians.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "for it is by your won righteousness that you are saved, through faith, this from yourselves, so that you can boast.":smilewinkgrin:

1 Corinthians 2:14, "everyone can understand God, but some people choose to resist God because they prefer hell over heaven." :laugh:

John 6:63-65, "Judas chose to betray me even though God drew him. But he was powerful enough to resist God's call and chose to go to hell instead.":laugh:

Romans 8:20 "for the creation was subjected to frustration by its own choice so it can choose to be liberated by its own choice as well."

The above is the gospel of the Arminians which is the gospel of Satan because it's based on pride, not humility.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You changed the very scriptures there. It says "not of works". It says nothing of the will in this verse.

Paul is contrasting works verses faith. And that is who God elects, those who come by faith, not of works.

You completely neglected what this verse really says and added an idea of your own.

Nope. I was taking the chapter as a whole and relating my comment to the Scripture I posted previously.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

After all that is said before this verse, the Holy Spirit says "So..." in other words, to sum up...this is what I am saying.

So no, I am not neglecting the verse. I am taking God's meaning by what God says His meaning is. "Not of works, its election, of God that shows mercy, God that calls, et."

So...it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that shewth mercy.

Give God the glory!

 

[Carico]

I'm so glad someone showed me the errors in the bible so now I can re-write it according to Arminians.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "for it is by your own righteousness that you are saved, through faith, this from yourselves, so that you can boast.":laugh:

1 Corinthians 2:14, "Everyone can understand God, but some people choose to resist God because they prefer hell over heaven." :laugh:

John 6:63-65, "Judas chose to betray me even though God drew him. But he was powerful enough to resist God's call and chose to go to hell instead.":laugh:

Romans 8:20 "for the creation was subjected to frustration by its own choice so it can choose to be liberated by its own choice as well."

The above is the gospel of the Arminians which is the gospel of Satan because it's based on pride, not humility.