Ccm

[iasusxrist]

What is the argument against CCM?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What is the argument against CCM?

My argument against it is that it's just not good music. The songs are shallow and, oftentimes, Unbiblical, making Jesus seem more like a fat girl pining away for the captain of the football team she'll never have than the Sovereign God of the Universe.

My only other argument is that they don't make CCM for grown ups. It's all either for kids or old ladies.

 

[preachinjesus]

My argument against it is that it's just not good music.

lol...I agree! :thumbs: But for different reasons.

From a music stand point I think much of CCM is contrived, poorly structured, silly music. Instead of leading out the CCM industry is constantly catching up.

So what makes a song Christian? What makes a band Christian? Is there a Jesus Per Minute ratio we need? Are "Christian" songs more sanctified than other songs?

 

[Johnv]

Arguments against CCM as a genre are not objective.

As a matter of subjectivity, it's a matter of religious liberty. A church is neither required to, nor barred from, incorporating CCM. It can do so or not do so as it sees fit, just as it does with any other genre of music.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Arguments against CCM as a genre are not objective.

As a matter of subjectivity, it's a matter of religious liberty. A church is neither required to, nor barred from, incorporating CCM. It can do so or not do so as it sees fit, just as it does with any other genre of music.

For the record, while we don't condemn popular music in general (for instance, both the pastor and I listen to a lot of secular music), we don't allow it in our church because we don't feel that it's appropriate for that occasion. Not that it's sinful or immoral, just not appropriate for that setting.

 

[Trotter]

We use CCM and traditional in out church, blended if you will. I like CCM, but not all of it is great. Some songs are shallow, but not all or even the majority. Many really put worship into words. Of course, the same can be said about hymns... not all are sound theologically (many are horrid on that count), and many are rather shallow.

Basically, it boils down to personal preference.

 

[iasusxrist]

Even if it's not "your" argument, is anyone aware of the argument made against CCM as a genre? And how it is structured?

 

[Alive in Christ]

"My only other argument is that they don't make CCM for grown ups."

Sure they do.

It called Praise and Worship

And there is lots and lots of excellant CCM. You just have to find it. Dont just listen to CCM radio. Its mostly the worst on CCM radio.

People make way too many generalisations. CCM is every bit as diverse as secular music is. If someone asks me if I like CCM I say..."which band"?

Rap and Hip hop? I cant stand it.

Waterdeep? LOVE them.

Toby Mac? No

Iona? Love them.

Skillet? No

Ryan Delmore? Yes.

Chris Lizzote? Yes.

Edens Bridge? Yes.

Point of Grace? No

Jim Cole? Yes.

Jami Smith? Yes.

And even though Praise and Worship is more adult oriented, even they have some that I dont like. For the most part Vineyard is by far the best for my taste. I have tons of their "Winds of Worship", "Touching the Fathers Heart, and "Acoustic Worship" recordings. They are just awesome regarding producing excellant quality Praise and Worship. Integrity Music is good, but I have more Vineyard stuff.

Of course, Vineyard and Integrity both have youth oriented music, but I just dont buy it. I like the better stuff.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Sure they do.

It called Praise and Worship

Oh, you mean the songs where they just repeat the same three or four words over and over until your eyes glaze over? Or do you mean the ones with the amatory lyrics that make Jesus sound like our girlfriend?

And there is lots and lots of excellant CCM. You just have to find it.

Tried. Couldn't find it.

 

[annsni]

Oh, you mean the songs where they just repeat the same three or four words over and over until your eyes glaze over?

You mean like Revelation 4:8??

Or do you mean the ones with the amatory lyrics that make Jesus sound like our girlfriend?

Oh - hate those ones!!

Tried. Couldn't find it.

I can safely say you didn't look hard enough or you chose not to like anything you saw.

 

[annsni]

I'm not into most CCM. It's not all terrible and it's certainly not all good. I prefer the praise and worship stuff myself and that's about all I listen to in the car or on my iPod.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You mean like Revelation 4:8??

Revelation 4:8 doesn't do that at all.

I can safely say you didn't look hard enough or you chose not to like anything you saw.

Then not only would you not be safe, you'd also be pretty arrogant. I was actually involved in the production end of Christian rock for several years. I heard and saw many bands that your average Christian music fan has never even heard of. I scoured dozens of websites, got all the big magazines, (CCM, Heaven's Metal, White Throne, etc).

Here we go:

Todd Snider, Jimmy Buffett, Lonnie Mack, Los Straitjackets, Keith Sykes, Sandy Denny, and the Cincinatti Dancing Pigs. Now, go ahead and show me Christian artists who do music in a style similar to these artists.

 

[Johnv]

Oh, you mean the songs where they just repeat the same three or four words over and over until your eyes glaze over?

Oh, you mean like:

I will sing of the Mercies of the Lord, or Blessed Be the Name, or This is the Day... ooops, those are all traditional hymns. How about the Hallelujiah Choru.... oh, nevermind.

Or do you mean the ones with the amatory lyrics that make Jesus sound like our girlfriend?

I could list pages of traditional hymns and tunes that do the same, indicating this is not an issue of objectivity.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Oh, you mean like:

I will sing of the Mercies of the Lord, or Blessed Be the Name, or This is the Day... ooops, those are all traditional hymns.

Actually, those aren't traditional hymns. They're worship choruses from the 1970s.

 

[Johnv]

Actually, those aren't traditional hymns. They're worship choruses from the 1970s.

Good catch, but what I was referring to was

I Will Sing of the Mercies, writtin circa the late 1890's
Blessed Be The Name, written in the late 1800's
This is the day, an old chorus written in the late 1700's

It didn't occur to me that the lyrics also appeared in choruses in teh 70's and 80's.

 

[Trotter]

the great old hymns of today was once the CCM of another era, like it or not.

It amazes me how some have decided that the church should not advance from somewhere between 1920-1950. Seriously. Walk into the majority of churches and they are basically identical except for the color of the carpet. Look in the redback hymnal... the newest copyright is from the 50's, and it is a renewal.

I won't say that all of the CCM out there is good, but a lot of it is. Some contain a whole lot of scriptural truth, whether JohnDeereFan believes it or not.

If God can use a talking ass, he can use CCM as well.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Look in the redback hymnal... the newest copyright is from the 50's, and it is a renewal.

I know what you mean. We're still using a Bible that was written thousands of years ago. We really do need to update our scriptures.

In all fairness, the hymnals in our last church were more recent than the 50's because they contained that theological gem, "God of Earth and Outer Space".

If God can use a talking ass, he can use CCM as well.

And there's not a whole lot of difference between the two.

 

[Trotter]

And there's not a whole lot of difference between the two.

At least we are sure of where you stand, brother.

 

[annsni]

Well, I think anything more contemporary than the 1600s is evil. If the only Bible can come from that time, then so must the songs.
:laugh:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

At least we are sure of where you stand, brother.

Yep. I don't like CCM. If someone else does, then I respect that but I don't and to be honest, I kind of resent the some of the implications being made about me because I like other kinds of music.