Question on Deut 5:16

[thegospelgeek]

KJV (Deu 5:16) Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

ESV (Deu 5:16) "'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

Does this mean that any child who dies young did not honor father and Mother? Of course it does not, but what exactly does it mean?

 

[Johnv]

KJV (Deu 5:16)Does this mean that any child who dies young did not honor father and Mother? Of course it does not, but what exactly does it mean?

OT Jews equated a person being honored with abundant living. Not in a monetary sense, but in a sense of being being considered in high honor by those around you. A person who is honored by his children is an honorable person. Likewise, a child who honors his parents is an honorable person. It doesn't necessarily mean you will literally live an additional number of years. A person of honor is rewarded with many years of an honorable life, and it is these years that the commandment is referring to.

This would have been understood in OT Jewish society. To us ini the 21st century, the context is missing, so we don't necessary understand the blessing that is being referred to.

 

[thegospelgeek]

OT Jews equated a person being honored with abundant living. Not in a monetary sense, but in a sense of being being considered in high honor by those around you. A person who is honored by his children is an honorable person. Likewise, a child who honors his parents is an honorable person. It doesn't necessarily mean you will literally live an additional number of years. A person of honor is rewarded with many years of an honorable life, and it is these years that the commandment is referring to.

This would have been understood in OT Jewish society. To us ini the 21st century, the context is missing, so we don't necessary understand the blessing that is being referred to.

I get what you are saying but disagree simply because that is not what it says, in or out of context.

 

[annsni]

When we don't honor our parents, there is a character flaw in us. That character flaw most likely will manifest itself not only in not honoring our parents but others - and possibly because of that, lead to an early death due to a disobedient lifestyle. That's how *I* see it.

 

[Darron Steele]

KJV (Deu 5:16) Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

ESV (Deu 5:16) "'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

Does this mean that any child who dies young did not honor father and Mother? Of course it does not, but what exactly does it mean?

The word is "may."

These verses are teaching that people who honor their parents might live longer than they would have otherwise.

 

[Johnv]

I get what you are saying but disagree simply because that is not what it says, in or out of context.

It's how the OT Jews would have understood it in their society.

The bigger question is, I think, what is it saying to us, today? We're being commanded to honor our parents. The one who honors God honors his parents. If we don't honor our parents, we're not honoring God.

 

[DHK]

KJV (Deu 5:16) Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
In the NT Paul repeats the command, adding that "it is the first command 'with promise.'"
A long life generally comes with honoring one's parents. This is not a set in stone promise to everyone. It is a guide, a rule of thumb. We know there are exceptions. It is still a statement of the will of God stated for children with a general promise of a longer life compared to those who are rebellious. Generally speaking those who live in rebellion to their parents their lives will be short-lived. It is a generally true statement in every society.

 

[thegospelgeek]

When we don't honor our parents, there is a character flaw in us. That character flaw most likely will manifest itself not only in not honoring our parents but others - and possibly because of that, lead to an early death due to a disobedient lifestyle. That's how *I* see it.

Makes sense except wouldn't it then say that dishonoring parents leads to a shorter life?


I think it hinges on the word "may". Any Greek scholars who can give me a good definition on the use of may? Does it mean will or might?

 

[thegospelgeek]

KJV (Deu 5:16) Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
In the NT Paul repeats the command, adding that "it is the first command 'with promise.'"
A long life generally comes with honoring one's parents. This is not a set in stone promise to everyone. It is a guide, a rule of thumb. We know there are exceptions. It is still a statement of the will of God stated for children with a general promise of a longer life compared to those who are rebellious. Generally speaking those who live in rebellion to their parents their lives will be short-lived. It is a generally true statement in every society.

This is what I am thinking, but how can I get there Biblically. Since Paul says it is a promise and the way it is worded appears to be a promise, how can we Biblically say that it is a generality?

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentive, but am trying to get a better understanding of how to study and understand scriptures the way God intended them.

 

[thegospelgeek]

It's how the OT Jews would have understood it in their society.

How can I know this? What do you base this on? I realize that you may not be able to answer this on a forum, if the answer is too long just tell me why you think this and what allows you to make this determination.

The bigger question is, I think, what is it saying to us, today? We're being commanded to honor our parents. The one who honors God honors his parents. If we don't honor our parents, we're not honoring God.

No disagreement there.

 

[DHK]

This is what I am thinking, but how can I get there Biblically. Since Paul says it is a promise and the way it is worded appears to be a promise, how can we Biblically say that it is a generality?

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentive, but am trying to get a better understanding of how to study and understand scriptures the way God intended them.

There are many promises which are given as generalities and not absolutes, especially concerning the family. Here is one:

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
--Many Godly families still have had a child go astray.

or:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
Isn't it odd how often we leave off the last half of that verse.
How many of our "households" have not all come to the Lord, even though we have? But the promise is still there. It is a general promise. But we know that it isn't 100% true 100% of the time. How I wish it were.

 

[Johnv]

How can I know this? What do you base this on? I realize that you may not be able to answer this on a forum, if the answer is too long just tell me why you think this and what allows you to make this determination.

One needs to have an understanding of OT Jewish society to know how they would have understood it. But that's not important, really. What's important is that one not "overread" somethign into the passage. The passage isn't promising anyone more years of life of they honor their parents. As DHK noted, it's a generality, not a specific "if/then" statement.

 

[thegospelgeek]

There are many promises which are given as generalities and not absolutes, especially concerning the family. Here is one:

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
--Many Godly families still have had a child go astray.

or:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
Isn't it odd how often we leave off the last half of that verse.
How many of our "households" have not all come to the Lord, even though we have? But the promise is still there. It is a general promise. But we know that it isn't 100% true 100% of the time. How I wish it were.

But how do we distinguish between the two?

 

[thegospelgeek]

One needs to have an understanding of OT Jewish society to know how they would have understood it. But that's not important, really. What's important is that one not "overread" somethign into the passage. The passage isn't promising anyone more years of life of they honor their parents. As DHK noted, it's a generality, not a specific "if/then" statement.

What exactly lets me know this? If it is not specific, how do I know? What is an example of a specific promise?

 

[steaver]

KJV (Deu 5:16) Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

ESV (Deu 5:16) "'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

Does this mean that any child who dies young did not honor father and Mother? Of course it does not, but what exactly does it mean?

Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

"Honour"...to fix the value of something belonging to one's self.

Truly giving another "honour" is a very tall order. It is obtainable for it is commanded. But to "fix the value" takes humility and submission from the heart. Not because of fear of discipline, but out of reverence and love.

For a child to give true honour the child must first be taught how to honour and why it is a very good thing. How many parents fail their children and thus the child has no understanding of honour? How many children find their parents honourable?

The promisses are good and stand true for anyone who truly obeys the commandment. I don't believe there are exceptions, but God is judge and we cannot see the heart as He does.

Pro 22:6Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

This promise is good. The problem is, parents judge themselves by themselves or by others. If we would judge our "training up" according to the scriptures we would see a much higher standard for the promise to become effective.

The promise is that they will not depart when they are "older". Inmaturity can cause alot of grief. Trian your child well through these years and the promise is good.

BTW, my two children strayed from godliness and I once bragged that I did not raise them to do the things they were doing. I did some good training, but nowhere near the standard I discovered later in life in the holy scriptures. I was righteous in my own eyes. By God's standard I totally failed my kids. By the grace of God they are learning to eschew evil now and are working on their relationship with Christ.

How many Christian parents take their children to church every week for an hour or two and live as the world Monday thru Saturday? And these parents believe they are training their children "well".

:jesus:

 

[billwald]

"The land" is Israel. Has nothing to do with people living in Brooklyn.

 

[steaver]

"The land" is Israel. Has nothing to do with people living in Brooklyn.

But the command and promise is repeated in the NT and includes Gentiles.

 

[billwald]

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

>--Many Godly families still have had a child go astray.

The promise is when the child is old. When the the child is old, if he lives long enough to become old, the parent is possibly dead. But the parents live on through their children so the good effect is way down the time line.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

KJV (Deu 5:16) Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

ESV (Deu 5:16) "'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

Does this mean that any child who dies young did not honor father and Mother? Of course it does not, but what exactly does it mean?

I thought this meant that if I didn't honor my mother and father, they were going to kill me.

 

[Marcia]

Not honoring parents, in general, can bring a shorter life because you put yourself at risk through disobedience and following tempations.

I think these 2 commentaries on this are insightful.

Here's an additional motivation for obeying your parents; namely because generally speaking those who honor their parents are better off for it. Parents characteristically have their children's best interest in mind. Which is not to say that they will necessarily act in accordance with what their children are interested in, but rather in accordance to what is best for their children. For given that "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child" Pr 22:15, it is necessary they be trained to do what is right and good. "Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it." Pr 22:6 Children that are untrained my literally end up dead. They may get involved wiht the wrong people, get involved with crime, drugs, sexual promiscuity, or the like, and end up if not dead, end up living a miserable life with miserble eternal consequences.

source
http://www.bcbsr.com/books/eph6a.html

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]To disobey parents is a symptom of a disintegrating, decaying society, and Christian families have a distinct responsibility not to contribute to the collapse of the ordered community. To disobey parents is named in the horrible list of sins ascribed to those with who "did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer" and who God therefore gave "over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper"...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times] [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times] slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents (See notes Romans 1:28; 1:29; 1:30)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Paul says parental disobedience will characterize the last days writing...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times] [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times] But realize (present imperative) this, that in the last days difficult times (grievous times, violent, fierce, wild, hard to bear times) will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient (apeithes = literally those who refuse to be persuaded!) to parents, ungrateful, unholy (See notes 2 Timothy 3:1; 3:2) (McGee observes that "Disobedience to parents is the last and lowest form of lawlessness to occur on this earth. Disobedience to parents is one of the characteristics of the last days. Today we hear of many cases of children rejecting parental authority and even killing their parents! This is indicative of the times in which we live." [Ref])[/FONT]

source
http://www.preceptaustin.org/ephesians_61-3.htm