Martha & Mary_Christ loved them both

[kyredneck]

This might sound silly, but something that came to my mind while I was thinking about this passage is that when I was younger (in age and spiritual maturity), I was much more concerned with "stuff" than sitting at Jesus' feet. As I grow older and more spiritually mature, I find myself wanting to sit at Jesus' feet more and more and the "busy-ness of life" just doesn't seem so important.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks for commenting Amy.

You make perfect sense. I relate very much with what you said, especially the part about wanting to sit at His feet as you get older. IME, the older I get the more I wish I had sit at His feet when I was younger, instead of striking out on my own so much. I think things would have went soooo much smoother had I done that. Just like I believe that all that serving Martha was worried with would have still gotten done had she also taken her repose in Christ.

You refer to spiritual maturity which may well be the very thing this passage is about. There's Martha and Mary within us all. I believe Scarlett O's post was along that line.

In your opinion, is there an implication from the Lord that Martha should be doing as Mary?

 

[kyredneck]

.......Martha was most likely cleaning, cooking, and decorating the house for the guests who were to come........

Thanks for commenting.

The text reads 'Martha was cumbered about much serving'. I don't get preparations from that. I believe the feed was on.

In your opinion, is there an implication from the Lord that Martha should be doing as Mary?

 

[Amy.G]

In your opinion, is there an implication from the Lord that Martha should be doing as Mary?

Yes. Vs. 40 says that Martha was "cumbered" or burdened with all the serving. Instead of rebuking Mary for not helping her, Jesus says that Mary had chosen the good part (learning from Him) and that it will not be taken away. The time we spend focusing on worldly stuff is time that is lost and nothing has been gained, but time spent with Jesus produces eternal rewards.

Jesus said Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mat 11:28.

When we sit at Jesus' feet as Mary did, we lay down our worldly burdens and find rest.

 

[webdog]

The lesson I learned from this story is when I see my wife wanting to start doing chores, to hurry up and grab a Bible! :laugh:

 

[sag38]

I don't grab a Bible, I run....

 

[kyredneck]

I inadvertently left off the lead-in verse to this passage in the OP:

Now as they went on their way, he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. Lu 10:38

......The time we spend focusing on worldly stuff.....

Amy, just as Abraham knew who it was that appeared unto him by the oaks of Mamre that day (Gen 18:1) and made ready a feast to serve his guest(s), Martha knew full well who it was that she had received into her house (Jn 11:21), and her energies were directed at serving Him. There's nothing here that implies concerns for 'worldly stuff'. She was anxious to serve her Lord.

The text reads 'Martha, Martha, thou art anxious and troubled about many things: but *one thing is needful....'.The Lord is telling Martha that she is worried about unnecessary things and He wasn't going to make Mary get involved in Martha's busyness.

*As in [only] one thing is needful. Marginal note in my ASV: Many ancient authorities read 'but few things are needful'.

 

[kyredneck]

The lesson I learned from this story is when I see my wife wanting to start doing chores, to hurry up and grab a Bible! :laugh:

........that don't get in my house, the wife's already wise to it.......

 

[kyredneck]

I don't grab a Bible, I run....

....that won't get it either, she can outrun me.....

 

[Amy.G]

MEN! Grrrrrrr......:BangHead:
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:laugh:

 

[Marcia]

I don't know if I agree with you here, I believe all scripture is important.

You know, I've never enjoyed reading those long geneologies and wondered why this is important to know. But there are scholars, historians, and archeologists who study these accounts, and verify them through historical writings and archeological finds. So they are very important.

I didn't say it wasn't important! I said people read too much into it. They are trying to get a message that imo is not there. I am not saying there is not something to learn from the passage.

 

[Marcia]

Thanks for commenting Marcia.



Do you think we're wrong for trying to derive a lesson from it, which may or may not be allegorical? I don't see any harm being done here.

No, I don't think it's wrong to think about the passage and what Jesus said, but I do think it's wrong to make it allegorical. It is not allegorical.

I agree with Winman, all the scripture is important. I don't think there's an idle word in the Bible.

Did I say there is an idle word in the Bible? If you knew me, you would never ask that question.

I'll ask you the same question that I did Winman. Is the Lord implying that Martha should cease her activities and sit and listen to Him as Mary is?

Yes, I think it is as simple as that - Jesus is saying Martha should sit with Jesus. People make way more of it than that though!

 

[kyredneck]

.... Yes, I think it is as simple as that - Jesus is saying Martha should sit with Jesus. People make way more of it than that though!

.....The Lord is telling Martha that she is worried about unnecessary things and He wasn't going to make Mary get involved in Martha's busyness.

.......and I still see the analogy with the Free Will/Sovereign Grace schism in this........ The free willers are concerned about many unnecessary things that they actually have no control over.

 

[sag38]

redneck you are stretching it way too far brother. There are lots of S. Gracers who are concerned about many unnecessary things such as making more out of a story in the Bible than is there.

 

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon, On Spiritualizing:

The first canon to be observed is this—do not violently strain a text by illegitimate spiritualizing. This is a sin against common sense. How dreadfully the word of God has been mauled and mangled by a certain band of preachers who have laid texts on the rack to make them reveal what they never would have otherwise spoken.

You have all heard of William Huntingdon's famous rendering of the passage in Isaiah xi. 8: "The sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den." "'The sucking child,' that is, the babe in grace, 'shall play on the hole of the asp,' 'the asp,' that is, the Arminian: 'the hole of the asp,' that is, the Arminian's mouth." Then follows an account of the games in which simple minds are more than a match for Arminian wisdom. Professors of the other school of divinity have usually had the good sense not to return the compliment, or the Antinomians might have found themselves ranked with cockatrices, and their opponents boastfully defying them at the mouths of their dens. Such abuse only injures those who use it. Theological differences are better expounded and enforced than by such buffoonery.

 

[Winman]

Discipleship = trust in the Lord = sitting at the Lord's feet and hearing his word. That has merit, IMO. I prefer 'sitting at the Lord's feet and hearing his word' = repose or refuge in the Lord, which of it's own necessitates trust. You make an excellent point. I also agree with you that all those in the parable of the sower are God's children.

In your opinion, what's the lesson to be learned in Martha being cumbered with much serving and anxious and troubled about many things? How is Martha to be contrasted with Mary? Is the Lord implying that Martha should cease her activities and sit and listen to Him as Mary is?

I do not believe the seed sowed by the way side was saved. The ground represents the hearer, and especially the hearer's willingness to listen to God's word. The way side is the ground between the furrows, it is where you walk. It is pressed down and hard, seed cannot penetrate this ground, and so it lies on the surface where the fowls (Satan) can take it away.

Luke 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

As you see, this ground is trodden down. This represents their hard hearts.

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Couple of important things to note here. Those by the way side were sown the same exact seed (the word of God) as those who did receive it and were saved. So, God did not withhold from them or show partiality to the others. And notice it was sown in their hearts, just like the others.

But as I said before, this ground was trodden down. I believe this speaks to the effects of sin on the heart. Love of sin makes men cold and heartless. And it is this love of sin, love for the works of the devil that makes them hard against the gospel. They consider the gospel for a moment, and weigh it against the sin they love. Then their love of sin takes them away. This is what is meant by the devil taking the word out of their hearts.

2 Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Have you ever rationalized something? I know I have. I'll be perfectly honest here, whenever I drive down South, I speed. Driving around town I do the speed limit, but on these long trips I will often drive 75 MPH or even more. I know it is wrong, we are to obey the authorities, but the trip is very long and I try to get there as quickly as possible. I used to rationalize that the speed limits were unrealistic, or say that everybody drives over the limit...

You get the idea. Sometimes we want something, even though we know it is wrong. So we will try to convince ourselves that it is OK. That is a dangerous habit to get into.

And this is the seed by the way side. These are those that hear, but they have sin in their life that they don't want to give up. And they will allow themselves to be deceived with lies. They might say they will get saved another day. They might convince themselves that God doesn't exist, whatever, the devil has a million ways to deceive us.

At the end of this parable Jesus told his disciples to be very careful of what they listen to. Those who will sincerely listen to him, to them he will give more. But to those who do not listen, even that which was given them shall be taken away.

Mark 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

God does not show partiality. He gives his word and opportunity to be saved to all. Notice in Luke 8:12 that Jesus says "lest they believe". They have the ability to believe, but their love of sin and Satan's lies steals the word out of their hearts.

This seed by the way side never took root, never sprang to life. The fowls devoured it. But the other seed sown on rocky ground, among thorns, and in the good ground all took root and sprang to life. So I believe these were saved, but the rocky ground and thorny ground did not bear fruit.

And what is the fruit of a believer? A godly life of course, but more importantly other believers. We are to go out and reproduce ourselves by telling folks how to trust Jesus and be saved. And how are you going to tell folks the gospel if you do not know the scriptures well? So, it is important that we read and hear the word always.

 

[webdog]

.......and I still see the analogy with the Free Will/Sovereign Grace schism in this........ The free willers are concerned about many unnecessary things that they actually have no control over.

"Sovereign gracers" see the cal / arm issue in every passage, even ones that don't apply.

 

[kyredneck]

redneck you are stretching it way too far brother. There are lots of S. Gracers who are concerned about many unnecessary things such as making more out of a story in the Bible than is there.

Charles Spurgeon, On Spiritualizing:
The first canon to be observed is this—do not violently strain a text by illegitimate spiritualizing......

.....Theological differences are better expounded and enforced than by such buffoonery.

"Sovereign gracers" see the cal / arm issue in every passage, even ones that don't apply.

Any of you all ever throw a rock at a wasp nest when you were a kid?

...ah..... never mind......

I reckon that's exactly what I've done here. It's not the first time I've opened mouth and inserted foot.

....FYI, I posted the OP with a wee bit of tongue in cheek.....

..........because the simile is unprovable, as most are.

The point of the OP (which I think AresMan got) is that Christ has His sheep on both sides of the fence in the Free Will/Sovereign Grace schism and He loves them all......

Stretching it way too far? Violently straining the text with illegitimate spiritualizing? Buffoonery? See the cal / arm issue in every passage? Surely you all judge me harshly. I might have stepped on some free willer toes but I didn't do all that!

 

[Marcia]

.......and I still see the analogy with the Free Will/Sovereign Grace schism in this........ The free willers are concerned about many unnecessary things that they actually have no control over.

The analogy is not valid - the text suggests nothing about free will or non-free will. It is not about salvation.

 

[sag38]

Brother, I think you stepped on your own toes or tripped over them or something.