Drinking Question......

[Aaron]

I find it hilarious that so many of the preachers who scream against drinking alcohol in any form to churches full of fat people are as addicted to food as any drunkard is to drinking. Gluttony is not as obviously destructive as "wine-bibbing", but it is just as destructive to the spirit. But you'll never hear preaching on gluttony or see a preacher fall on his face at the altar for living in direct violation of God's Word.

Pastors will tell others that God will not bless them for harboring unrepentant sin & that they are not right with God. If this is true, then his pastorship is a farce & he is preaching in the flesh.

The fat preacher who cannot see his feet without bending over has no place to tell anyone not to have a drink with dinner. Am I sinning if I have a mixed drink with my wife in our own home, or is the fundamentalist sinning when he bellies up to the buffet BAR for the third time?

Pro 23:20 "Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh". -Clear, Direct command which speaks to drinking & eating to excess! Yes, it is about moderation.

Overeating is a form of drunkenness. There is this one difference between food and alcohol: Alcohol isn't food. It's a drug. An extremely potent and addictive drug.

 

[annsni]

No, He did NOT say it was good. You're trying to find something in a carnal command given under a dispensation of darkness to infants in faith. You're like the Pharisees who thought, "Gee, God commanded a bill of divorcement, it must be good."

I can find an apostle saying it is good NOT to drink wine, or to do anything that will cause a brother to stumble. And that is what I will promote. I will promote doing good, and those who know how to love their brothers will do the same.

Those who love themselves will always find ways to hallow even questionable activities, and are wiser in their own eyes then seven men who can render an answer.

Then be sure you condemn eating meat as well. Read the passage.

 

[Aaron]

You assume too much. I did read the passage. Read my post: or anything that will cause a brother to stumble.

 

[Aaron]

I will promote doing good. You will simply promote self-love.

 

[annsni]

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but according to several commentaries (Clarke, Gill, Poole) when the wine is "red" (Prov. 23:31) is referring to fermented wine. But the problem is not with just looking at it, but looking at it with a lustful eye, much like lusting after a woman. This is what leads to the over-consumption and abuse of it.

I can post the commentaries if anyone would like.

Of course it is speaking of fermented wine because you can't be drunk on unfermented wine. However the passage is not saying to not look on the wine because it is fermented. There are no commentaries that would support that.

 

[annsni]

You assume too much. I did read the passage. Read my post: or anything that will cause a brother to stumble.

Yes, OR ANYTHING.

I do not drink because of this.

But I will not say that the Scriptures condemn all drinking of alcoholic beverages because it doesn't and that would be lying.

 

[Amy.G]

Of course it is speaking of fermented wine because you can't be drunk on unfermented wine. However the passage is not saying to not look on the wine because it is fermented. There are no commentaries that would support that.

You are correct. I wasn't trying to disagree with you.

 

[annsni]

You are correct. I wasn't trying to disagree with you.

See, the issue is that Fred keeps saying that the Bible says not to look on wine when it is fermented however, that's not in any version I have - even the NIV and the Message! LOL

 

[Aaron]

Yes, OR ANYTHING.

I do not drink because of this.

But I will not say that the Scriptures condemn all drinking of alcoholic beverages because it doesn't and that would be lying.

Puh-leeeze! Integrity isn't your motivation. You've boasted in your ability to enjoy the taste and flaunt your knowledge of different brands and your preference of each. No. Your point in this thread is yourself.

 

[annsni]

Puh-leeeze! Integrity isn't your motivation. You've boasted in your ability to enjoy the taste and flaunt your knowledge of different brands and your preference of each. No. Your point in this thread is yourself.

You know my motivation?? Oh really? How?

Yes, I enjoy the taste a lot. An awful lot. I know a little bit between super cheap wine and decent wine - but I'm certainly no expert.

But I do not drink because of my ministry to young adults. I will give up my liberty for them. Not because the Bible commands it because it doesn't. But I do it so that I can tell the young adults that it is OK to not drink and still enjoy life.

 

[Amy.G]

See, the issue is that Fred keeps saying that the Bible says not to look on wine when it is fermented however, that's not in any version I have - even the NIV and the Message! LOL

Maybe the confusion is over which word to emphasize. When the wine is "red" is referring to fermented wine, but how can just looking at it be sin? Maybe the word we should be emphasizing is "look". To look at it with a craving (so to speak) that would cause us to abuse it is what the text is speaking of. I think. :tongue3:

 

[saturneptune]

as if you had the ability to know. :laugh:

Well, its this way. Webdog and I do not always agree, but his positions are always well thought out and make sense. On the other hand, considering the thought put into your posts, a chimp might as well be banging the keyboard.

 

[Aaron]

You know my motivation?? Oh really? How?

Yes, I enjoy the taste a lot. An awful lot. I know a little bit between super cheap wine and decent wine - but I'm certainly no expert.

But I do not drink because of my ministry to young adults. I will give up my liberty for them. Not because the Bible commands it because it doesn't. But I do it so that I can tell the young adults that it is OK to not drink and still enjoy life.

Whatever, I know your motivation from your words.

If you were truthful with your youth, you'd tell them it is good NOT to drink wine or do anything that makes a brother stumble, for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

"Enjoy life without drinking alcohol?" :laugh:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Aaron posted to Annsni...

I will promote doing good. You will simply promote self-love.

:BangHead::tonofbricks:


Goodness, Aaron, have you no shame???


Its just stunning...

 

[Old Union Brother]

OK I'm new on here and I have been reading this discussion with quite abit of interest. First, I do not drink wine or any other alcoholic beverages, it is by choice and conviction. When I was a new Christian a wise old member of the church gave me advice that I will never forget. He told me to never, ever give the adversary anything to talk about. The world is always trying to find fault with Christian people. Drinking alcohol is an easy fault for them to see.

 

[Steven2006]

1Cr 8:9 But take care that this [fn] liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.


1Cr 8:10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?


1Cr 8:11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.


1Cr 8:12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.


1Cr 8:13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

I used to feel that a glass of wine with diner or a beer at a ball game were fine, these are the verses that convinced me to stop. I personally really enjoyed the taste of a quality wine, and loved an ice cold beer on a hot day. However any benefit I gained from the pleasure paled in comparison once taking these verses seriously.

 

[kyredneck]

OK I'm new on here and I have been reading this discussion with quite abit of interest. First, I do not drink wine or any other alcoholic beverages, it is by choice and conviction. When I was a new Christian a wise old member of the church gave me advice that I will never forget. He told me to never, ever give the adversary anything to talk about. The world is always trying to find fault with Christian people. Drinking alcohol is an easy fault for them to see.

Hello Brother. Welcome to the BB. Is your brand of Old Regular Baptist Particular or General Atonement? Maybe you should introduce yourself on the intro forum.

 

[annsni]

Maybe the confusion is over which word to emphasize. When the wine is "red" is referring to fermented wine, but how can just looking at it be sin? Maybe the word we should be emphasizing is "look". To look at it with a craving (so to speak) that would cause us to abuse it is what the text is speaking of. I think. :tongue3:

I don't think "red" means that it is fermented because even juice is red. I don't think we can say "red" is a synonym for fermented but in the context we can see that the wine is fermented. But not all fermented wine is red so we can't use them interchangeably. I see the commentaries as saying that the "red" means that it is lovely to look at - pleasing - desirous. That would then go along with what you are saying - that it is the craving of a drunkard that it is speaking of.

 

[annsni]

Whatever, I know your motivation from your words.

My words are clear.

If you were truthful with your youth, you'd tell them it is good NOT to drink wine or do anything that makes a brother stumble, for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Yes, I will tell them that it is good to not drink in our culture today. But I am not going to tell them to not drink wine because it may make a brother stumble because that is used as a cop-out. Instead, I will tell them that they are to use wisdom and caution and to not drink if they are around those who could stumble because of their partaking. But in the privacy of their own home or with others who are OK with them having a glass of wine? I'm not going to tell them that they cannot drink because God doesn't say so.

"Enjoy life without drinking alcohol?" :laugh:

Yes - this is the common wisdom amongst young people. They can't have fun without alcohol. I tell them that is not true.

 

[Steven2006]

Pro 23:29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?


Pro 23:30 Those who linger long over wine, Those who go to [fn] taste mixed wine.


Pro 23:31 Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it [fn] sparkles in the cup, When it goes down smoothly;


Pro 23:32 At the last it bites like a serpent And stings like a viper.


Pro 23:33 Your eyes will see strange things And your [fn] mind will utter perverse things.


Pro 23:34 And you will be like one who lies down in the [fn] middle of the sea, Or like one who lies down on the top of a [fn] mast.


Pro 23:35 "They struck me, but I did not become [fn] ill; They beat me, but I did not know it. When shall I awake? I will seek [fn] another drink."

I am no expert but for what it is worth, I always felt these verses described the person that had a drinking problem, and were in the habit of mixing his drinks in some way in order to make it a stronger more potent drink.