Did Jesus Have Faith?

[Tom Butler]

In another thread, Winman posted this:

Do you not see here what believing or trust is? Jesus did not fight death. He gave up and died and trusted his soul into the hands of his Father. He let himself die, and trusted and depended that the Father would raise him from the dead as he promised.

This is the perfect example of faith. It is giving up, it is letting go, it is surrendering yourself into the care of another. It is not a work, it is a ceasing of work.

But Jesus still did something, he allowed himself to die. But that action was a result of his faith. If he did not believe his Father would raise him from the dead, he would have fought to the last breath to live, or come down by his own power.

So the question before the board is, did Jesus have faith? Or, did he need faith. Did Jesus have to trust the Father to raise him from the dead? Does the Creator of the Universe, who has all power, have to have faith?

Release the hounds.

 

[DHK]

In another thread, Winman posted this:


So the question before the board is, did Jesus have faith? Or, did he need faith. Did Jesus have to trust the Father to raise him from the dead? Does the Creator of the Universe, who has all power, have to have faith?

Release the hounds.

Jesus did not need faith for He was God--fully God. But He was also fully man, and being a man he, at times, laid aside his divine attributes. He told Peter that he could have called 12 legions of angels. But he didn't. He had laid aside his attribute of omnipotence as he went to the cross and allowed the Roman army to crucify him.
As a man he told others that even the son of man didn't know the time of the coming of Christ, and yet God knows all things. He had put aside his omniscience for a time.
As a man, there were times that he had a need of faith and trust, for he laid aside divine attributes while he came to do the will of his Father. As a child he came to rely solely on his earthly parents to take care of him. He needed faith then.

Faith was what Christ exercised when he requested John to take care of Mary. He trusted him to take care of her.

 

[Soulman]

Jesus did not need faith for He was God--fully God. But He was also fully man, and being a man he, at times, laid aside his divine attributes. He told Peter that he could have called 12 legions of angels. But he didn't. He had laid aside his attribute of omnipotence as he went to the cross and allowed the Roman army to crucify him.
As a man he told others that even the son of man didn't know the time of the coming of Christ, and yet God knows all things. He had put aside his omniscience for a time.
As a man, there were times that he had a need of faith and trust, for he laid aside divine attributes while he came to do the will of his Father. As a child he came to rely solely on his earthly parents to take care of him. He needed faith then.

Faith was what Christ exercised when he requested John to take care of Mary. He trusted him to take care of her.

To add to this a little, as mentioned Jesus left His glory above. Fully God He sinned not. As fully man He had to be educated and had to learn the scriptures. As fully man He had to survive temptations and pray through faith as all men do.

 

[canadyjd]

In another thread, Winman posted this:

So the question before the board is, did Jesus have faith? Or, did he need faith. Did Jesus have to trust the Father to raise him from the dead? Does the Creator of the Universe, who has all power, have to have faith?

Release the hounds.

As DHK and Soulman stated, the answer lies within the mystery of the incarnation. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Jesus laid aside His divine attributes when He assumed humanity.

I think Winman is on to something. If "faith" is "trust", then the answer is yes.

Jesus prayed to His Father, "not My will but thine..." That is a demonstration of faith in His Father's will for His life.

I don't see any problem with the persons of the Godhead having "faith" or "trust" in each other. In fact, it would seem to me that such "faith" or "trust" within the Godhead must be a perfect faith/trust, given the "oneness" that exists.

Good question. I'll be interested in keeping up with this thread.

peace to youraying:

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Winman
Do you not see here what believing or trust is? Jesus did not fight death. He gave up and died and trusted his soul into the hands of his Father. He let himself die, and trusted and depended that the Father would raise him from the dead as he promised.

This is the perfect example of faith. It is giving up, it is letting go, it is surrendering yourself into the care of another. It is not a work, it is a ceasing of work.

But Jesus still did something, he allowed himself to die. But that action was a result of his faith. If he did not believe his Father would raise him from the dead, he would have fought to the last breath to live, or come down by his own power.

Sadly this sounds like Word of Faith heresy to me. You know: God had to have faith to create the Universe. Very Sad!:tear::tear::tear::tear:

 

[Deacon]

What an interesting question!

At first take I thought, "Of course"
A second later I thought, "No".

but then...


Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.
Hebrews 3:1–6 ESV

Rob

 

[Deacon]

Well here's an interesting one: Galatians 2:16

The catch is that the word in question is a variant (should we move the thread to the translations forum? - chuckle)

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
AV 1873

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
ESV

Rob

 

[TomMann]

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: \ˈfāth\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Anglo-French feid, fei, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust — more at bide
Date: 13th century
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially: a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
synonyms see belief

I cannot find anything in this definition of faith that I would find lacking in the person of Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

As DHK and Soulman stated, the answer lies within the mystery of the incarnation. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Jesus laid aside His divine attributes when He assumed humanity.

Just what Divine attributes did Jesus Christ lay aside? The Apostle Paul states: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [Colossians 2:9]

 

[DHK]

Just what Divine attributes did Jesus Christ lay aside? The Apostle Paul states: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [Colossians 2:9]

He laid aside his omnipotence when he went to the cross (for example). He could have saved himself from the agony of the cross, but he didn't. He could have called thousands of angels, but he didn't. All the power in heaven was available to him. He is God. But he never used that power.

 

[OldRegular]

He laid aside his omnipotence when he went to the cross (for example). He could have saved himself from the agony of the cross, but he didn't. He could have called thousands of angels, but he didn't. All the power in heaven was available to him. He is God. But he never used that power.

Just because HE did not use HiIS Divine attribute of omnipotence does not mean HE laid it aside or left it behind. Again the Apostle Paul states: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [Colossians 2:9]

The only thing HE laid aside was HIS Glory since man cannot see the Glory of GOD and live.

 

[Amy.G]

Jesus laid aside many divine attributes when He became flesh.

God cannot die, but Jesus died.

God does not sleep, but Jesus slept.

God never gets tired, but Jesus became weary.

God is omniscient, yet Jesus did not know the time of His coming.



Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


Yet even in His humanity, He was and is the eternal God.

 

[Tom Butler]

Sadly this sounds like Word of Faith heresy to me. You know: God had to have faith to create the Universe. Very Sad!:tear::tear::tear::tear:

That's why I think we have to be careful in this area. The WOF folks hold that Jesus spoke "faith-filled" words to bring the universe into existence. And that is heresy.

This, of course, before he came to earth to die for us. He had not laid aside his omnipotence, or omniscience.

On earth, it is not clear at all that Jesus laid aside his divine attributes. He knew the hearts of the Pharisees, he knew what they were thinking; he exercised power of the elements; he exercised power over death.

The hounds are still loose.

 

[Amy.G]

On earth, it is not clear at all that Jesus laid aside his divine attributes.

Jesus died a human death. God cannot die.

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus laid aside many divine attributes when He became flesh.

God cannot die, but Jesus died.

God does not sleep, but Jesus slept.

God never gets tired, but Jesus became weary.

God is omniscient, yet Jesus did not know the time of His coming.



Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


Yet even in His humanity, He was and is the eternal God.

You are confusing the attributes of the human nature of Jesus Christ with the Divine Nature! I repeat once again. The Apostle Paul said: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [Colossians 2:9]

 

[Amy.G]

You are confusing the attributes of the human nature of Jesus Christ with the Divine Nature! I repeat once again. The Apostle Paul said: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [Colossians 2:9]

Yes, but He was also fully human. He chose to lay aside His right as God and live as one of us.

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[swaimj]

So the question before the board is, did Jesus have faith?

I'm gonna say "no", Jesus did not have faith.

Think of it this way: Did Jesus have holiness? No, Jesus is holy. Did Jesus have love? No, Jesus is love. Did Jesus have righteousness? No, Jesus is righteousness.

All of the things that I need from God are given to me: Love, righteousness, holiness, etc. They are alien to me because I am a sinner. They must be given to me.

But, Jesus, in His nature is already all of these things, so they are not something he has, but something he is.

However, faith is still not exactly in the same category with these other attributes, or qualities. Righteousness, love, holiness, etc., are all accessible to me, how? By faith. So faith is something I exercise, though it is an exercise in passivity, that results in receiving something else.

Since Jesus already is all of the spiritual qualities that can only be gifts to me/for me, faith is not necessary for Him in the same sense that it is for me.

Yes, Jesus entrusted Himself to the Father and to his will, and yes, Jesus was faithful. However, He did these things out of His perfection and gained no spiritual standing through them; there was no spiritual standing that could be gained for Him because He already was perfection.

 

[Jim1999]

If I am understanding Swaimj correctly, Jesus does not have faith, He is the essence of faith. Just as God has all those other things as part of His nature, and not attributable gifts.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Mexdeaf]

I think this is one of those questions that cannot be answered definitely 'yes' or 'no'.

Some things are a mystery and cannot be understood on this side of eternity. The incarnation and the manner and extent of our Lord's self-limitation is one of those things, IMHO.

 

[Tom Butler]

Jesus died a human death. God cannot die.

I understand the point you are making. But, was Jesus any less God when his human body died?