Election: A Glorious Truth for all Christians

[Revmitchell]

That's a good question. Since they believe that they are responsible for their salvation and they insist that a decree from God has nothing to do with it. Maybe they are thankful that they had that special ability, insight, self-determination, strength of character or unique power of discernment that the non-elect simply don't possess.

From this post alone it is apparent you do not know what non cals believe.

 

[Rippon]

From this post alone it is apparent you do not know what non cals believe.

Please enlighten me then. A number of non-Cals would disagree with you.

 

[DHK]

That's a good question. Since they believe that they are responsible for their salvation and they insist that a decree from God has nothing to do with it. Maybe they are thankful that they had that special ability, insight, self-determination, strength of character or unique power of discernment that the non-elect simply don't possess.

Notice that the verses concerning election, especially those in Ephesians 1, and in most other places are always directed to believers. Thus "according to his good pleasure," is speaking directly about God's will for the believer after he comes to Christ. It is not speaking of salvation. It is not speaking of one's election to salvation. Rather it is speaking why he was elected in the first place--"that we should be to the praise of his glory," something that the unbeliever cannot do. It is a passage directed to the believer and cannot even be understood by the unbeliever.

You will find the same true of Eph.2:8-10 where verses 8 and 9 speak of salvation, but 10 speaks about good works. We are chosen, as believers, to have fruit, the fruit of good works. Salvation comes first. And it is very clear in that passage that salvation is by grace and through faith. It is the faith of the one who is trusting in Christ, not the faith that is given by God. The statement is clear. It is salvation that is the gift of God, not faith.

 

[Rippon]

NRSV Cited

Notice that the verses concerning election, especially those in Ephesians 1, and in most other places are always directed to believers. Thus "according to his good pleasure," is speaking directly about God's will for the believer after he comes to Christ. It is not speaking of salvation. It is not speaking of one's election to salvation.

The verses in Ephesians one are directed to believers. But it is certainly about our salvation. Verse 5 says :"He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will." It's obviosly about the believer before he comes to salvation because the previous verse says it was before the foundation of the world.

You will find the same true of Eph.2:8-10 where verses 8 and 9 speak of salvation, but 10 speaks about good works. We are chosen, as believers, to have fruit, the fruit of good works. Salvation comes first. And it is very clear in that passage that salvation is by grace and through faith. It is the faith of the one who is trusting in Christ, not the faith that is given by God. The statement is clear. It is salvation that is the gift of God, not faith.

Salvation, which certainly includes faith, is given by God to the ones of His choice and that was made before the world was formed. It's not logical of you to say that salvation is a gift of God but faith isn't.

 

[Robert Snow]

That is not Sovereign Election by God; that it is man electing himself. Man is in bondage to sin and Satan and cannot of his own will [which by the way is not free] come to Jesus Christ for Salvation. The Apostle John is very clear on this in his account of the ministry of Jesus Christ as is the Apostle Paul in Ephesians and Romans.

OR, you could surely be right and I could surely be wrong, but I cannot believe contrary to what I think the Scriptures teach.

One thing is sure though. There are good Christians on both sides of this issue. I work evenings and enjoy listening to John McArthur although I disagree with him.

 

[pinoybaptist]

OR, you could surely be right and I could surely be wrong, but I cannot believe contrary to what I think the Scriptures teach.

One thing is sure though. There are good Christians on both sides of this issue. I work evenings and enjoy listening to John McArthur although I disagree with him.

I can identify with that.
When I was on the day shift, driving to work, I enjoyed listening to Jack Graham. Good preaching, that man.

 

[Tom Bryant]

That's a good question. Since they believe that they are responsible for their salvation and they insist that a decree from God has nothing to do with it. Maybe they are thankful that they had that special ability, insight, self-determination, strength of character or unique power of discernment that the non-elect simply don't possess.

You're wrong! You may have thought you were being cute (you're not). You may have thought you were being sarcastic. But you are just plain wrong!

I am thankful for God's election because the Bible teaches it. We may disagree about the mechanics, but it is clearly taught in the Scripture.

 

[Robert Snow]

Romans 8:29-30

For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate , them he also called : and whom he called , them he also justified : and whom he justified , them he also glorified .

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I believe God has chosen those who would believe and, like this verse and Romans 8:29 shows, has predestined that we should be conformed to the image of His Son.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Robert Snow]

The false doctrine of men is that they are able to save themselves by their own free will. The will of unregenerate man is not free; it is in bondage to sin and Satan. Jesus Christ Himself said: If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.[John 8:36]

I'm not saying that man is able to save himself, but that God has allowed a man to turn to Christ after hearing the Gospel. It is God that does the saving by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary!

 

[OldRegular]

Notice that the verses concerning election, especially those in Ephesians 1, and in most other places are always directed to believers.

Isn't most of the Bible directed to believers? I believe that all of the Epistles and the Book of Revelation were written to the churches. The Gospel of John certainly includes information one could say is directed to nonbelievers but John also teaches the Doctrine of Election if one will only read what God chose to reveal to that Apostle.

 

[OldRegular]

OR, you could surely be right and I could surely be wrong, but I cannot believe contrary to what I think the Scriptures teach.

One thing is sure though. There are good Christians on both sides of this issue. I work evenings and enjoy listening to John McArthur although I disagree with him.

Robert

I would never question the salvation of those who disagree with me on Election. Believing in Election I cannot even question the Salvation of Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox as many on this Forum do.

I have not always believed in Election [Though I have always believed that Salvation is the act of God alone.] but over a number of years came to recognize that the Scripture teaching on Election are too clear to ignore. I take great joy in knowing that my future is in the Hands of the One who chose me, the One who died for me, and the One who made that death effective in my salvation.

I enjoy listening and reading John MacArthur even though he is a dispensationalist. I enjoy reading his books because they are written so one can understand what he says.

 

[OldRegular]

What started as a testimony to God's goodness and grace in election very soon descends to an argument.

This non-Cal is still thankful for God's election.

I certainly do not consider myself a Calvinist since he held to some doctrines that I don't. I do believe very strongly in the Sovereign Grace of God in Salvation.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I believe God has chosen those who would believe and, like this verse and Romans 8:29 shows, has predestined that we should be conformed to the image of His Son.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

If you are saying that the basis of God's election is because He saw who will believe, then I will have to disagree.

 

[OldRegular]

Which was a portion of scripture I already quoted to someone else.

And I answered it.

You see that we are elected According to the good pleasure of his will. In case you are curious as to how God made us accepted in the beloved, Jesus Christ, then you might study Ephesians 2:1-6.

 

[webdog]

That is not Sovereign Election, that is man electing himself!

...and that is rubbish. God sovereignly can choose whom He wants, apart from you trying to tell Him how in order for Him to be sovereign. The irony is calvinism actually limits God's sovereignty, as seen from OR's post here.

 

[webdog]

God's foreknowledge is based on his foredetermination..Berkhof in his text on theology. Hence, it is more than knowing ahead of time. It is predetermined according to His own purpose and end. Pleanty of sacripture to support this, but people always fall back on to verses that talk about foreknowledge.

Cheers,

Jim

Scripture for this (if there that many)?

 

[Revmitchell]

Please enlighten me then. A number of non-Cals would disagree with you.

I doubt it. You think, incorrectly, that our personal action define who gets the credit. The truth is He who has the power and authority to give salvation gets the credit regardless of what response He requires form us. But then you are not really interested in what we actually believe. You cals refuse to deal with the dichotomy of mans choice and God's sovereignty. Mainly because of your poor view of the sovereignty of God.

 

[Rippon]

I am thankful for God's election because the Bible teaches it. We may disagree about the mechanics, but it is clearly taught in the Scripture.

Did God choose you or did you choose God?

 

[Rippon]

I doubt it. You think, incorrectly, that our personal action define [sic]who gets the credit. The truth is He who has the power and authority to give salvation gets the credit regardless of what response He requires form [sic]us.

But then you are not really interested in what we actually believe.

Quit your lying.

... of your poor view of the sovereignty of God.

I believe that the Lord is entirely sovereign -- you don't. You think there are exceptions wherein He is not sovereign.You're the poverty-stricken one.

 

[Revmitchell]

Quit your lying.

Nice!:thumbs:

I believe that the Lord is entirely sovereign -- you don't. You think there are exceptions wherein He is not sovereign.You're the poverty-stricken one.

Again you demonstrate you do not know what I think.