Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I have never, nor would I ever, in any way deny the Diety of my Lord. Speaking of bearing false witness......
Your sinister intentions are showing DHK.
Your sinister intentions are showing DHK.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Did Adam reach age of responsibility before
- Thread starter billwald
- Start date
Nothing sinister at all.
If this is not a denial of the deity of Christ then what is?
You have taken away his deity and made him a simple man of lowly intelligence.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Whatever DHK. I certainly hope you sleep well.
I will sleep well; will you?
Have you no explanation for this seeming attack on Christ; on his omniscience? Care to explain?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I have not attacked Christ, but obviously that means nothing to you. Tell us DHK, where exactly did I misrepresented you? You accuse me of attacking Christ. Tell us how I have done that. Will you accuse me of the Holocost as well? Why not? Go ahead.
No, I have merely asked you to explain your own words from your own two posts #41 and #44. Here it is again:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
If the moderator desires to derail this thread, fine. We can turn this thread into a lengthy discussion concerning the attributes of God, and of Christ on this earth.
If you feel bewilderment or amazement, or God, in some measure does not increase in what He is cognizant of (I am limited as a finite being to words we have in the finite English language in depicting an Infinite God which all should fully realize it is simply the best we can do as finite human beings) is “blasphemy” or denying His Omnisicence, listen to the words of God for yourself as found in Jeremiah.
Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
God claims that He has never even considered or thought of the wickedness some were committing. Is it “blasphemy" to DHK to quote this verse? Explain to us what God is saying and how an Omniscient God could make such a remark.
Christ on this earth was clearly "God in the flesh." Just the same, Scripture informs us that " Lu 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." We both agree that Jesus was God, so tell us how He could 'grow' in 'wisdom...and favour with Himself?'
If you feel bewilderment or amazement, or God, in some measure does not increase in what He is cognizant of (I am limited as a finite being to words we have in the finite English language in depicting an Infinite God which all should fully realize it is simply the best we can do as finite human beings) is “blasphemy” or denying His Omnisicence, listen to the words of God for yourself as found in Jeremiah.
Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
God claims that He has never even considered or thought of the wickedness some were committing. Is it “blasphemy" to DHK to quote this verse? Explain to us what God is saying and how an Omniscient God could make such a remark.
Christ on this earth was clearly "God in the flesh." Just the same, Scripture informs us that " Lu 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." We both agree that Jesus was God, so tell us how He could 'grow' in 'wisdom...and favour with Himself?'
Last edited by a moderator:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
DHK, once again, I kindly asked you to produce the evidence of your assertions that I have misrepresented you.
HP: Can you produce that quote?
Actually, I produced two quotes and have heard nothing more from you. It is interesting that you dismiss the beliefs of writers like Origen who lived so close in time to the apostles themselves because, you say, they were 'Roman Catholic'. Again, your dating of the existence of the Roman Catholic Church at such an early time is, I'm sure, coming as quite a surprise to the Baptist on this board. Probably might be disputed by some Anglicans, Lutherans, Orthodox, etc. as well.
Origen, in his 'Homily on Leviticus' stated, “all are tainted with the stain of original sin which must be washed off by water and the Spirit."
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Note that Origen spent a lot of time with speculative theology which is why things became problematic for him in the first place. This does not take away from the fact that scriptures seems to indicate that we are conceived in sin or have a sin nature. How that plays out is of some difficulty. Most on this site would hold to the total depravity of our nature the moment we are conceived. Though the Orthodox and Catholics don't hold to total depravity. And even the Orthodox differ on what is original sin from Catholics who hold an Augustinian view furthered by Aquinas.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Forgive me, but can you point to your post where you quoted me? Thanks.
You mean the "fruit" incident?
Well, since Adam's punishment was in regards to his failure to acknowlege his responsibility ("the woman did it, no you who gave me the woman did it"), I would say yes.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
JohnV, can you explain to us how finite man can ‘make’ God do anything? You need to answer in a way that does not detract from God being All-Powerful. :smilewinkgrin:
H.P., You also said: 'Lori, I do not go searching after Roman Catholic ECF’s to bolster or base my interpretations of the Word of God.'
He can't. Where did I say a finite man can make God do anything?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Here is the question by BW I thought you were answering: "Did Adam "Make" God put him out of the Garden?" Your answer (as I took it) was "Yes."
I was just trying to save you from falsely being accused of blasphemy or denying Gods attributes.:godisgood:
I was just trying to save you from falsely being accused of blasphemy or denying Gods attributes.:godisgood:
Last edited by a moderator:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Thank you Lori. Yes, I said that and stick by it. What I did not say was that I necessarily dismiss what one says because the are RC.
I'm glad you don't dismiss what one says simply because a person may be Roman Catholic.
I think most people posting on this board will take issue with you establishing the Roman Catholic Church at such an early time. However, what I have really been looking for are any Early Church Fathers that would support your belief.
It seems Tertullian (who died about the year 220 AD) believed the inclination toward sin due to Adam was not itself a sin which required forgiveness. However, his Homily on Baptism does prove that infant baptism was widely practiced during his time and also that baptism was viewed by the early Church as providing for the remission of sins.
H.P. said: 'Was not ST. AMBROSE OF MILAN the man responsible for Augustines conversion? Possibly Ambrose was as steeped in Philo’s heathen philosophical ideas as was Augustine.'
As a matter of fact, Christian apologists used philosophical justifications for Christian beliefs to Greco-Roman society. Justin Martyr (d. 165) did just that. He wrote about the necessity of infant baptism in his 'First Apology' based on the fact that infants are born with wayward inclinations. He believed in the sinful condition of humankind, but believed the sin of Adam and Eve was no more than a prototype of personal sin. Justin believed sin originated in man’s free will. Adam’s sin diminished the power to resist evil, but freedom was never lost completely.
As a matter of fact, Christian apologists used philosophical justifications for Christian beliefs to Greco-Roman society. Justin Martyr (d. 165) did just that. He wrote about the necessity of infant baptism in his 'First Apology' based on the fact that infants are born with wayward inclinations. He believed in the sinful condition of humankind, but believed the sin of Adam and Eve was no more than a prototype of personal sin. Justin believed sin originated in man’s free will. Adam’s sin diminished the power to resist evil, but freedom was never lost completely.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, makes more sense. I wasn't addressing that question... I was addressing the OP question: Did Adam reach age of responsibility before the apple incident? I had deduced in my argument that the answer is "yes".
Heheeh! Thanks :wavey: