Since we've been talking about Calvinism...

[preachinjesus]

Just as a point of information.

For everyone talking about Calvinism here's a little poll to see where we stand.

Just for funsies:thumbs:

Feel free to add in the other material read. Thanks!

 

[David Michael Harris]

Can we have, I will not read anything by Calvin.

 

[Allan]

Just as a point of information.

For everyone talking about Calvinism here's a little poll to see where we stand.

Just for funsies:thumbs:

Feel free to add in the other material read. Thanks!

You forgot Calvin's Commentaries.

I have also read much of Luthers works, which includes his commentaries.
I have read some of the works of Bunyon, J.I. Packer, Spurgeon (actaully much of these), John Gill, Matthew Henry, and many others (both current and historical).

Actaully, I have read more from those of the Reformed faith than others.

 

[Allan]

Can we have, I will not read anything by Calvin.

Then you will miss out on quite a bit truth that both he and you agree on even if you will disagree on a few other things.
You would also find in his commentaries that he was arguably not as adament on Limited Atonement as some say he was, same with Luther.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Then you will miss out on quite a bit truth that both he and you agree on even if you will disagree on a few other things.

I knew that would come.

Might I recommend Philip Schaffs work, History of the Christian Church, Mr Schaff studied all and he covers both the German and Swiss/French Reformations.

Volume 8 chapter 14 is superb. Especially Calvinism examined.

I have it in book form which I bought over 20 years ago and now is free for E-Sword etc.

Why are people so protective of Calvinism?

Calvin even agreed to the burning to death of a human because of it. This is not the Christianity I see. I see Stephen being put to death and saying, Lord do not punish them for this. Calvinism seems to be on the wrong end of the stake.

By their fruits? Harsh eh! Was John Calvin a murderer? A puritan board member once mentioned to me about a 'tree of repentance' in Geneva? Anyone know about this? I cannot find diddly on it.

 

[Allan]

I knew that would come.

Might I recommend Philip Schaffs work, History of the Christian Church, Mr Schaff studied all and he covers both the German and Swiss/French Reformations.

Volume 8 chapter 14 is superb. Especially Calvinism examined.

I have it in book form which I bought over 20 years ago and now is free for E-Sword etc.

Why are people so protective of Calvinism?

Calvin even agreed to the burning to death of a human because of it. This is not the Christianity I see. I see Stephen being put to death and saying, Lord do not punish them for this. Calvinism seems to be on the wrong end of the stake.

By their fruits? Harsh eh! Was John Calvin a murderer?

It is apparent you know very little about John Calvin.
It should be noted the John Calvin asked for a 'lesser sentencing'. Was John Calvin a murder? No. Did John Calvin wish to stop what he thought was heresy or false teaching from corrupting immature believers in accordance with current governmental policies? Yes. Does this mean he was right to do so? No. But does that equate to him not being a child of God? No in the slightest.

Was King David a murderer, or Moses?
Did this affect their position as believers?


Anyone who studies theology should be protective toward any view that speaks spiritual truths even if it is not 100% agreed upon with respect to non-essentials but the same regarding the essentials.

1. You do believe in the depravity of man and that man (of and by himself) without the aide or grace of God will not seek after God or ever come to faith in him?

2. You do believe that only those whom God has chosen (regardless of the mechanics on how) from before the world was created, will be saved?

3. You do believe in the definite work of the atonement that saves and is only applied by faith because of the grace of God?

4. You do believe that it is only by the grace of God that man can know or come to Christ and that this grace uses various means to draw men to God?

5. You do believe that those people whom God has saved is kept by power of the one who saved them?

If you agree with the above questions then you share the essense of the 5 points though you might disagree with the mechanics on how some of them operate. This doesn't mean these views are Calvinistic but that they are the immutable truths set forth in scirpture. What makes them Calvinistic or Arminians or some other theological view is the mechanics of how the operate. Yet, you still share the basic theological truths Calvinisms does.

 

[David Michael Harris]

It is apparent you know very little about John Calvin.
It should be noted the John Calvin asked for a 'lesser sentencing'. Was John Calvin a murder? No. Did John Calvin wish to stop what he 'thought' was heresy or false teaching from corrupting immature believers? Yes.

Anyone who studies theology should protective toward any view that speaks spiritual truths even if it is not 100% agreed upon with respect to non-essentials but the same regarding the essentials.

1. You do believe in the depravity of man and that man (of and by himself) without the aide or grace of God will not seek after God or ever come to faith in him?

2. You do believe that only those whom God has chosen (regardless of the mechanics on how) from before the world was created will be saved?

3. You do believe in the definite work of the atonement that saves and is only applied by faith because of the grace of God?

4. You do believe that it is only by the grace of God that man can know or come to Christ and that this grace uses various means to draw men to God?

5. You do believe that those people whom God has saved is kept by power of the one who saved them?

If you agree with the above questions then you share the essense of the 5 though you might disagree as to the mechanics or how some of them operate.

To be perfectly honest I do not want to know that much about Jean Cauvin.

From what I know about him he has caused nothing but trouble.

Now, Martin Luther, there is another guy. When I think of the Reformation I think of him, when I think of endless wasted time I think of Calvin.

 

[Allan]

To be perfectly honest I do not want to know that much about Jean Cauvin.

From what I know about him he has caused nothing but trouble.

Now, Martin Luther, there is another guy. When I think of the Reformation I think of him, when I think of endless wasted time I think of Calvin.

Fair enough, but it isn't a good thing to allow personal prejudice to affect your study of the Word of God when looking at how others viewed certain things.

By the way, in case you didn't know, I'm not of the Calvinist/Reformed/sovereign grace doctrinal view.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Ok, but we can only express our views here.

At least to start with.

 

[zrs6v4]

You forgot Calvin's Commentaries.

I have also read much of Luthers works, which includes his commentaries.
I have read some of the works of Bunyon, J.I. Packer, Spurgeon (actaully much of these), John Gill, Matthew Henry, and many others (both current and historical).

Actaully, I have read more from those of the Reformed faith than others.

Ive been wanting to read some stuff on all of these men, I have a couple Packer books, Bunyon, and Spurgeon. I dont have anything by Calvin, Luther, Augustine, Gill, Henry, or whatever.

My question is, what is a good source to buy these writings online? is there any popular compilations of good writings that I can get in one large book? any advice helps. Thanks

 

[TomVols]

I'd like to see the breakdown by camp. IOW, how many Arminians have read Calvin, etc. I know few who have. Most Arms read what other people say of Calvin, Luther, and others, rather than read them for themselves.

 

[preachinjesus]

My question is, what is a good source to buy these writings online? is there any popular compilations of good writings that I can get in one large book? any advice helps. Thanks

Check out:

www.ccel.org

This is Christian Classics Etheral Library and it has all of Calvin's writings available plus most other significant theologians until the 20th Centuries. It is free (you should donate of course...:thumbsup and you can read online or download.

http://books.google.com

This is another great resource, though I am not completely familiar with what is or is not available. This would be primarily for recent works, though you might not see all of them.

Cheerio!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[preachinjesus]

I'd like to see the breakdown by camp. IOW, how many Arminians have read Calvin, etc. I know few who have. Most Arms read what other people say of Calvin, Luther, and others, rather than read them for themselves.

I know that is hard to do here, but I did make the poll so that responses could be seen. Maybe that will help. It is a good point.

 

[preachinjesus]

You forgot Calvin's Commentaries.

I have also read much of Luthers works, which includes his commentaries.
I have read some of the works of Bunyon, J.I. Packer, Spurgeon (actaully much of these), John Gill, Matthew Henry, and many others (both current and historical).

Actaully, I have read more from those of the Reformed faith than others.

I know that I would leave things out but the queston about other "source material" on Calvinism would include Calvin's other works. Hope that clarifies.

Any shortcomings in the poll are mine...of course. :wavey:

 

[Allan]

Ive been wanting to read some stuff on all of these men, I have a couple Packer books, Bunyon, and Spurgeon. I dont have anything by Calvin, Luther, Augustine, Gill, Henry, or whatever.

My question is, what is a good source to buy these writings online? is there any popular compilations of good writings that I can get in one large book? any advice helps. Thanks

Esword can give Calvins Institutes for free

There is an online recourse for all of Calvin's Commentaries
Like here:
And for Luthers Commentaries you need to look them up by books
Like Galations:,
Romans (sort of an overview by chapter)
Or the actaul commentary here ,
and 1 & 2 Peter and Jude are found here

Here is one that has his sermons and other works - here -

 

[preachinjesus]

To be perfectly honest I do not want to know that much about Jean Cauvin.

From what I know about him he has caused nothing but trouble.

Well, this is what gets me. Now I'm not reformed, but respect the Reformed position.

Why on earth would anyone desire to critique something and bear so much resentment towards something if they've never read anything about it from the "horse's mouth" so to speak?


There are plenty of theologians and theological systems that I disagree with, but I have taken the time to read these people. Otherwise we are just offering an ad hoc rationality that contributes nothing meaningful.

The primary reason I have started this poll is because I want to see if the major criticizers of Reformed theology (which I do not consider myself in complete alignment with) have actually read Reformed theology. IMHO, it is sort of like talking about why you dislike the President though you never voted in the general election. You sort of lose credibility.

If we are going to criticize and critique a belief system, wouldn't it make sense to read up on it from its founders?

I don't know why anyone would do anything else...

 

[David Michael Harris]

Hard to beat Schaffs amazing work, free on E Sword

 

[zrs6v4]

- here -[/URL]

Check out:

www.ccel.org


Cheerio!:smilewinkgrin:

Thank you sirs! :thumbsup:

 

[zrs6v4]

Hard to beat Schaffs amazing work, free on E Sword

I never heard of him, give me a brief description.

Is he a modern writer? what denomination does he fall under? what type of writing etc? thanks

 

[MrJim]

I have Institutes and read through much of it though not all.

I have read Treatises against the Anabaptists and against the Libertines by Calvin..