Robert Snow
New Member
It never ceases to amaze my how someone as learned as you could believe what you have posted.
To think that God requires something from us that He then withholds makes God a monster. Thank God it isn't true!
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Regeneration: Begotten By God
- Thread starter OldRegular
- Start date
It never ceases to amaze my how someone as learned as you could believe what you have posted.
To think that God requires something from us that He then withholds makes God a monster. Thank God it isn't true!
Tom Butler
New Member
In Matthew 5:48, Jesus outlines this requirement: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."
This appears to be a command for us to be perfect, like God. Yet we can't.
Isn't Jesus demanding something of us that it is impossible to do?
Rather all mankind by default willfully "withholds" what they need on their part for salvation. Because of this God must intervene to claim His own.
Reprobation is all of mankind--every person--to damn themselves willingly in their own sin.
Salvation is all of God's grace whereby He changes the wills of His people so that they come to Him in love.
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And if God doesn't "intervene" in the lives of some, is He not withholding His intervention?
How does an infant damn themselves? An infant has no choice in being born, yet you hold them accountable for it. In fact, they are "damned" simply because they are human. According to this logic, all infants who die will go to hell. Sick.
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And pure evil.........
Yes. The scriptures clearly show that infants and small children are not accountable for their sins because they do not understand between right and wrong. Sin is trangression of the law. How can you sin if you do not know or understand the law?
Adam's sin was not passed upon us, Adam's death sentence for sin was. That is a huge difference. Because of Adam's transgression everyone who sins has the death penalty passed upon them. But Adam's sin itself does not pass upon anyone except Adam himself. The scriptures clearly show God holds every person accountable for their own actions and sins.
Deut 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
We are born flesh, we are born with a pulling and tendency toward sin. We did inherit this from Adam. But nowhere in the scriptures does it say a man cannot resist this pulling and obey God. It would not make sense for God to command men to obey God unless men were able to do so.
Children are amoral. They are neither good or bad. They are pure, they are sinless until that time that they are mature enough to understand between right and wrong. At that point (which only God knows), they become accountable to God and if they willingly sin become sinners and the death sentence that Adam brought into the world passes upon them.
Adam's sin was not passed upon us, Adam's death sentence for sin was. That is a huge difference. Because of Adam's transgression everyone who sins has the death penalty passed upon them. But Adam's sin itself does not pass upon anyone except Adam himself. The scriptures clearly show God holds every person accountable for their own actions and sins.
Deut 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
We are born flesh, we are born with a pulling and tendency toward sin. We did inherit this from Adam. But nowhere in the scriptures does it say a man cannot resist this pulling and obey God. It would not make sense for God to command men to obey God unless men were able to do so.
Children are amoral. They are neither good or bad. They are pure, they are sinless until that time that they are mature enough to understand between right and wrong. At that point (which only God knows), they become accountable to God and if they willingly sin become sinners and the death sentence that Adam brought into the world passes upon them.
Completely taken out of context. You have better hermeneutics than that, Tom.
Gotta love the slight of hand ad hominem thrown in for good measure as well...
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
None of you dissenters [those who embrace Freewillism] are really addressing the OP, particularly the final point:
4. They were born of GOD. That is all those who are born again, “begotten from above” are born solely through the act of GOD and certainly solely by the Grace of GOD. They are then given the gift of Faith through which the Gospel Call becomes the Effectual Call.
Instead you are engaging in what "webdog" calls "ad hominem" attacks. Of course everyone knows he would never be guilty of such:laugh::laugh: but I can't say the same for some of you others.
4. They were born of GOD. That is all those who are born again, “begotten from above” are born solely through the act of GOD and certainly solely by the Grace of GOD. They are then given the gift of Faith through which the Gospel Call becomes the Effectual Call.
Instead you are engaging in what "webdog" calls "ad hominem" attacks. Of course everyone knows he would never be guilty of such:laugh::laugh: but I can't say the same for some of you others.
Robert Snow
New Member
I believe you will find that the word "perfect" actually means mature. But, if it does mean perfect in a moral sense, we are perfect in Christ.
What is there to address...it's false. What else would you like? The debate on whether faith is a gift has been done hundreds of times.
Robert Snow
New Member
You must have the gift of finding fault. I said exactly what I meant.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amy.G
On more than one occasion I have posted articles by Dr. Albert Mohler, President of the Southern [Baptist] Seminary regarding the salvation of those who die in infancy, in part to address concerns expressed by you. If you wish to read further regarding the "calvinist" position on this subject I suggest that you go to:
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html?mainframe=/calvinism/boettner/infants_boettner.html
I believe that you will see that the Calvinist position on those dying in infancy is much more acceptable than that of Arminians.
Robert Snow
New Member
I believe this has been addressed, but in case you don't think so.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
In verse 13 it mentions those born by the will "of God." Yet if you look in verse 12 it identifies those as the ones who "receive Him" and "believe" on His name.
It is pretty obvious to me that those who choose to believe are the same ones who are born by the will of God.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
They choose to believe only because they first have been regenerated by GOD and given the Faith to respond positively to the Gospel Call. No one chooses to believe of their own free will because that will is in bondage to sin. I have posted the following many times but those enamored by Freewillism refuse to believe it:
1 Corinthians 2:14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
$. They were born of GOD. That is all those who are born again, “begotten from above” are born solely through the act of GOD and certainly solely by the Grace of GOD.
If you are tired of your inability to Biblically defend Freewillism's position in regard to the "Gift of Faith" then respond to the above "final point", consistent with the initial 3 points.
Robert Snow
New Member
People don't respond because God has first "regenerated" them. This is another Calvinistic myth.
They respond when they hear the preaching of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit convicts them or their sin. They then have a choice to either obey or not obey the Spirit of God. Remember the Scripture you quoted, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
First we receive Him (free will) then He gives us power (regeneration) to become God's children.
I was adding to your comment (Dr. Bob's ad hom)...not accusing you of anything.
I've defended my position quite nicely using the greek. Faith is NOT the gift spoken of in Eph. 2 and cannot be. For the umpteenth time, when the author wants to refer to an entire idea, he will use the neuter in the demonstrative pronoun, hence both grace and faith being feminine should not be referred to or taken individually, but the entire phrase collectively. In addition, there are two greek words for gift used in the NT, one is "dorea" which is on the emphasis of something being free, and the second is "doron" which is referring to something being sacrificial in nature. For your understanding of faith being the gift spoken of, Paul would have used "dorea"...but guess what...he used "doron", which further supports the sacrificial gift of salvation by grace (should be literally translated graciousness or graciously) through faith. My understanding of the gift being the whole of "by grace through faith" is both supported by the gender usage AND the intended meaning of the word for gift which faith does not support, as it was not the sacrifice. This will be the last time I state that to you.