Regeneration: Begotten By God

[OldRegular]

Ok. I'll play. So why does God only run into the road to save some of His children? Is that what you would do? What if 2 of your children are playing in the road? Which one would you save?

That is the beauty of the Sovereign Grace of GOD. He is able to save all those that HE chose unto Salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world!

 

[webdog]

That is the beauty of the Sovereign Grace of GOD. He is able to save all those that HE chose unto Salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world!

Sure is a sick outlook on beauty. If I saw my children playing with a group of children in the road and I could save all of them and didn't, I'd be a monster not to.

 

[webdog]

I am surprised you would make such a statement OR.

I think you know what "hear" means.

Not sure he does...he can't "hear" half the things those who oppose his views say and he keeps regurgitating the same old, regular tired statements.

 

[Skandelon]

It is not that they couldn't believe it is that they do not want to believe.

John 3:19, 20, KJV
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Surprise! Surprise!

Yes, I'm well aware of the old tired argument of "they are able but not willing."

So explain to me why you all quote a passages that speaks of inability to bolster your claims if indeed they are all able?

for example Calvinist quote Romans 8: "It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so." to prove their point and it says they are "not able to do so."

and ""No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"

Again, most Calvinists apply this to man's "total inability" because it says, "no one is able to come."

Why do you all insist on the a complex game of semantics? If he is unable to be willing, then he is unable, period. So hush up about that and deal with the arguments already.

 

[Amy.G]

That is the beauty of the Sovereign Grace of GOD. He is able to save all those that HE chose unto Salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world!

There's nothing beautiful about the Calvinist view of God's sovereign grace.

It makes God a cold hearted monster. Only a monster would take someone born into total depravity and refuse a way out. That is not the God of the Bible. People do not go to hell because God refused to regenerate them to faith, but rather because He held out His hand and they refused to take it.


Jesus was lifted up to draw ALL men unto Himself. Not just a few.

 

[The Archangel]

The following items have been posted:

so, since we are doing analogies, let's try this one which is much closer to being the real situation one is without Christ:

Let's say you have a 3 year old child who is out playing in the yard. You see your little cuttie getting closer and closer to the road. The road looks very attractive. The toy truck will roll much easier on that nice hard road, then it will the grass. You see a big truck coming down the road....and now your child is right in the middle of the road. Would you beg and plead with the child to move, or would usurp that child's precious free will, run out into the road, grab him and move him?

Ok. I'll play. So why does God only run into the road to save some of His children? Is that what you would do? What if 2 of your children are playing in the road? Which one would you save?

Sure is a sick outlook on beauty. If I saw my children playing with a group of children in the road and I could save all of them and didn't, I'd be a monster not to.

These quotes misrepresent the state of man. According to these statements and analogies, man is neutral--neither good nor bad. But, of course, the Bible tells us and shows us the condition of man is not neutral, it is "bad."

The analogy about saving someone from being hit by a truck and killed is false because we are already dead in our trespasses and sins. So, God is not preventing our death, He is bringing us back to life. That is the essence of salvation.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally Posted by jcjordan
so, since we are doing analogies, let's try this one which is much closer to being the real situation one is without Christ:

Let's say you have a 3 year old child who is out playing in the yard. You see your little cuttie getting closer and closer to the road. The road looks very attractive. The toy truck will roll much easier on that nice hard road, then it will the grass. You see a big truck coming down the road....and now your child is right in the middle of the road. Would you beg and plead with the child to move, or would usurp that child's precious free will, run out into the road, grab him and move him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy.G
Ok. I'll play. So why does God only run into the road to save some of His children? Is that what you would do? What if 2 of your children are playing in the road? Which one would you save?



But both analogies presume that ALL mankind are God's children, and that is not correct.
All mankind are God's creation thru the Federal headship of Adam, but not all are God's children.

 

[Amy.G]

But both analogies presume that ALL mankind are God's children, and that is not correct.
All mankind are God's creation thru the Federal headship of Adam, but not all are God's children.

I agree, which makes it a bad analogy. But I played along just to prove how ridiculous it is.

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by jcjordan
But both analogies presume that ALL mankind are God's children, and that is not correct.
All mankind are God's creation thru the Federal headship of Adam, but not all are God's children.

I think the analogies presume the willingness of the children to be saved--a fair assumption considering that most of us would not willingly stand in the middle of a road and desire a truck to run over us.

The other assumption is quite Biblical.
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Unfortunately we live in a world where people are so heart-hardened that they would rather be run over by a truck than to submit to the authority of Christ. But then, that's their choice.

 

[Amy.G]

The following items have been posted:







These quotes misrepresent the state of man. According to these statements and analogies, man is neutral--neither good nor bad. But, of course, the Bible tells us and shows us the condition of man is not neutral, it is "bad."

The analogy about saving someone from being hit by a truck and killed is false because we are already dead in our trespasses and sins. So, God is not preventing our death, He is bringing us back to life. That is the essence of salvation.

Blessings,

The Archangel

Our quotes did not in any way state that man is "neutral". Neither of us believe that. Our comments were in response to the silly analogy by JD. Maybe you should discuss it with him.

 

[Rippon]

Sure is a sick outlook on beauty. If I saw my children playing with a group of children in the road and I could save all of them and didn't, I'd be a monster not to.

This is why self-made human analogies are so ineffective.

Do you acknowledge that the Lord is not obligated to save anyone? Do you concede that no one deserves His mercy? Do you admit that He hardens those He chooses?

This monster-God that the non-Cals keep charging the Calvinists with is blasphemous. Get biblical for a change.

 

[webdog]

This is why self-made human analogies are so ineffective.

Do you acknowledge that the Lord is not obligated to save anyone? Do you concede that no one deserves His mercy? Do you admit that He hardens those He chooses?

This monster-God that the non-Cals keep charging the Calvinists with is blasphemous. Get biblical for a change.

Might actually help to see who's analogy it was :laugh:
Your answers...yes, yes, depends on your meaning, as hardening a corpse is meaningless, and God does nothing meaningless.

IN THE ANALOGY...any god like that would be monsterous. Nobody "charged" anybody with anything, so you can come down from your soap box.

 

[OldRegular]

Yes.

If I told my kids they could go see movie A, or movie B, if they chose movie A would they be usurping my authority? No. If they chose movie B would they be usurping my authority? No.

Either way they are being obedient to me, as I allowed them to make that choice themselves. And this is normal, we actually give our kids choices like this everyday.

It is God himself who has given man the choice to make. He requires of us a choice. Will we be saved his way through Christ, or will we choose another way?

You see, choosing God gives him honor, just as when a man chooses to ask a particular girl to be his wife. He has chosen her above all others.

If God causes you to believe, he would be honoring himself.

John 8: 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

And just as it honors a man when a woman chooses him above all others to be her husband, we honor Christ when we choose him to be our husband.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Notice it says his wife has made herself ready.

If you told your children to go, live as you please, do whatever makes you happy; would that mean you were a good father?

 

[OldRegular]

Not sure he does...he can't "hear" half the things those who oppose his views say and he keeps regurgitating the same old, regular tired statements.

Am I to assume that you have a talking monitor that reads the words to you WD!:laugh::laugh: Hope you learn to read real soon!:smilewinkgrin::tongue3:

 

[jcjordan]

Originally Posted by jcjordan
so, since we are doing analogies, let's try this one which is much closer to being the real situation one is without Christ:

Let's say you have a 3 year old child who is out playing in the yard. You see your little cuttie getting closer and closer to the road. The road looks very attractive. The toy truck will roll much easier on that nice hard road, then it will the grass. You see a big truck coming down the road....and now your child is right in the middle of the road. Would you beg and plead with the child to move, or would usurp that child's precious free will, run out into the road, grab him and move him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy.G
Ok. I'll play. So why does God only run into the road to save some of His children? Is that what you would do? What if 2 of your children are playing in the road? Which one would you save?



But both analogies presume that ALL mankind are God's children, and that is not correct.
All mankind are God's creation thru the Federal headship of Adam, but not all are God's children.

I agree my analogy has some shortcomings.

 

[Amy.G]

If you told your children to go, live as you please, do whatever makes you happy; would that mean you were a good father?

No. And God doesn't do that either. But good fathers do give their children choices. They tell their children to do as they say, or be punished.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

[jcjordan]

No. And God doesn't do that either. But good fathers do give their children choices. They tell their children to do as they say, or be punished.

In certain situations, I don't give them the option to stop....no matter how bad they don't like it. I don't care one bit about his choice in certain instances. If i've chosen to love him, then I will go at all costs to save them from certain destruction....they will love me for it later.

 

[Amy.G]

If i've chosen to love him, then I will go at all costs to save them from certain destruction....they will love me for it later.

So did God.

Joh*3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Robert Snow]

So, the one who holds the ultimate power here is man. God is powerless to do effectively bring a man to faith. He can try, but if man doesn't choose, than God loses.

If God, in His Sovereignty, grants man a choice, the He doesn't lose anything. You don't have to agree, but why is this so difficult to understand?

 

[Robert Snow]

This monster-God that the non-Cals keep charging the Calvinists with is blasphemous. Get biblical for a change.

Not true! You claim that God loves some people and hates all the rest, I find this to be heresy.

The non-Cals believe in a God that loves all His creation and desires all to be saved. This is a loving God, not a monster.