Your View On The Roman Catholics

[Jedi Knight]

Comparing church members instead of doctrine is silly.....of course not every member is saved. Look at what RCC teaches vs Baptist teaching then compare something. I went to RCC school and they NEVER taught me how to be born again. When I was around serious Baptist I was taught how to be saved.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Rather than side track another thread, I'll start this one. Personally, I do not believe Roman Catholics are Christians. From some of the posts on another thread, there seem to be some who think they might be. What do you think?

Roman Catholicism is a wicked and Ungodly cult and a Roman Catholic can no more be saved by following Catholic doctrine than a Muslim can be saved by following Islam.

Have you met and spoken to a Catholic? Have you been in the Catholic church? Have you spoken to any priest?

Yes. I spent several years in the Catholic church, went to Catholic schools attended CCD, etc.

And I will take a firm stand that not all Catholics believe this.

Of course they do. You have to affirm these things in order to be Catholic.

There are some who have trusted Christ and hold to those things out of ignorance, just as there are some Baptists who have trusted Christ and hold to extra-Biblical teachings out of ignorance also.

Those things are not "extra-Biblical". They're anti-Biblical.

I believe a Christian is one whom Christ redeemed with His blood unto Himself, from being hocked to Satan by virtue of Adam and Eve's fall, such redemption being motivated by none other than mercy on the part of the Creator, and takes no consideration as to the earthly or timely religious, theological, or political affiliation of the redeemed

Does the phrase"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Me" ring a bell?

Why is it so popular at this site to so often feel the need to declare catholics non Christian.

Because there are still some people here who believe the word of God.

That said I believe there are catholics that are saved, and I think blanket statements judging others salvation based on a church membership are awful.

So, do you believe that there are Muslims who are saved in spite of faithfully following the doctrines of Islam?

 

[Baptist4life]

Roman Catholicism is a wicked and Ungodly cult and a Roman Catholic can no more be saved by following Catholic doctrine than a Muslim can be saved by following Islam.



Yes. I spent several years in the Catholic church, went to Catholic schools attended CCD, etc.



Of course they do. You have to affirm these things in order to be Catholic.




Those things are not "extra-Biblical". They're anti-Biblical.



Does the phrase"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Me" ring a bell?



Because there are still some people here who believe the word of God.



So, do you believe that there are Muslims who are saved in spite of faithfully following the doctrines of Islam?

Amen! :applause:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Rather than side track another thread, I'll start this one. Personally, I do not believe Roman Catholics are Christians. From some of the posts on another thread, there seem to be some who think they might be. What do you think?

I believe Catholics are Christian. I believe they are Christians in the classical sense. My view of Christianity is that it was born in a time and cultural context that is not representative of today and that over the years the faith has evolved while still holding to the pre-eminant truths it always had. Catholics, I believe are part of this except that they've become so burdoned with their grasp on how things had been done in a different context that they at some point failed to evolve with societal context and some of the truths took second place to traditional ways of doing things. Ie. Canon Law. This can be observed by the fact that many catholics are only such because they were "born into the faith". Not that they have personally accepted the faith. They are Catholics like many Jews are Jews. However, there are born again catholics that have understood the faith and made it their own.

The Catholics hold to the Nicean Creed as their statement of Faith. I've noted that all true believers hold to the same points and divergence on any of the points is heretical. Now the Nicean Creed has been changed since its original writing but I think it applies to the Modern inovation of it as well.

 

[Baptist4life]

I continue to be amazed at the responses. Please, look at what the RCC teaches! They teach a DIFFERENT GOSPEL! Sacraments, idolatry, works....are people so unaware of the importance of what you believe?

Do you know that there are two Holy Days committed to Mary, that if you miss Mass on those days, you LOSE your salvation, because you are not in a "state of grace"?


You MUST believe Mary was Immaculately conceived, you MUST believe she was ever Virgin, you MUST believe her as "Queen of Heaven"! C'mon people! THAT is NOT Christianity! That is Goddess worship!


As Paul said, some may need to "examine yourselves to see in you are in the faith"!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I continue to be amazed at the responses. Please, look at what the RCC teaches! They teach a DIFFERENT GOSPEL! Sacraments, idolatry, works....are people so unaware of the importance of what you believe?

Do you know that there are two Holy Days committed to Mary, that if you miss Mass on those days, you LOSE your salvation, because you are not in a "state of grace"?


You MUST believe Mary was Immaculately conceived, you MUST believe she was ever Virgin, you MUST believe her as "Queen of Heaven"! C'mon people! THAT is NOT Christianity! That is Goddess worship!


As Paul said, some may need to "examine yourselves to see in you are in the faith"!

Show me. Prove to me that they believe this. Let me edit this. Yes Catholics believe immaculate conseption, that she was perpetual virgin, that she has an honored place in heaven and called "Queen of heaven" I'm not sure this is a must but you can't preach against it. However, their connotations of what this means and what you mean are two different things. What I'm questioning is this

Do you know that there are two Holy Days committed to Mary, that if you miss Mass on those days, you LOSE your salvation, because you are not in a "state of grace"?

Show me that they believe this.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I continue to be amazed at the responses. Please, look at what the RCC teaches! They teach a DIFFERENT GOSPEL! Sacraments, idolatry, works....are people so unaware of the importance of what you believe?

Do you know that there are two Holy Days committed to Mary, that if you miss Mass on those days, you LOSE your salvation, because you are not in a "state of grace"?


You MUST believe Mary was Immaculately conceived, you MUST believe she was ever Virgin, you MUST believe her as "Queen of Heaven"! C'mon people! THAT is NOT Christianity! That is Goddess worship!


As Paul said, some may need to "examine yourselves to see in you are in the faith"!

I find it really interesting that nobody here understands that the Reformation took placefor a real reason. It wasn't just a whim or a split over trivial issues.

We split with the Catholic church because they have a radically different and heretical view of justification. As far as I know, they haven't changed.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I make a difference between individual Roman Catholics and the papacy. So, in looking at the papacy I believe it is that Man of Sin foretold about in Scripture, very Antichrist.

While it is possible for a Roman Catholic to be saved in the RCC, they are saved despite the RCC.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I find it really interesting that nobody here understands that the Reformation took placefor a real reason. It wasn't just a whim or a split over trivial issues.

We split with the Catholic church because they have a radically different and heretical view of justification. As far as I know, they haven't changed.

I thought you were a landmarkist in historical approach to Christianity. The reformation should mean nothing to you as you have a seperate history.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I make a difference between individual Roman Catholics and the papacy. So, in looking at the papacy I believe it is that Man of Sin foretold about in Scripture, very Antichrist.

While it is possible for a Roman Catholic to be saved in the RCC, they are saved despite the RCC.

Strangely, I almost agree with you.

 

[annsni]

Ann, I think everything on Baptist4life's list is Catholic dogma, although he has recited them in a rather derisive manner.

If, as he states, dogma is anything that the disbelief of it will get you kicked out of the church, then some of those things are not dogma. I know a deacon in the church who does not believe all of those things and he has yet to be kicked out of the church even when the bishop is well aware of his beliefs. So, yes, I do know that they are beliefs of the Catholic church but the disbelief of some of them will not get you kicked out of the church.

 

[annsni]

And I know many Mormons who will tell you the same thing. Doesn't make it so.

But who does the Mormon put his faith in? Not the Jesus Christ of the Scriptures. However the Catholic does. Big difference.

 

[Mexdeaf]

While it is possible for a Roman Catholic to be saved in the RCC, they are saved despite the RCC.

I think you mean 'in spite of' the RCC, and I agree.:wavey:

 

[annsni]

So, do you believe that there are Muslims who are saved in spite of faithfully following the doctrines of Islam?

Do Muslims put their faith in Jesus Christ, God incarnate, who was born, lived and died on the cross for our sins then rose victorious from the grave to conquer death and that by trusting on Him for our salvation, we are saved? No? Well then no, they are not saved.

 

[annsni]

I continue to be amazed at the responses. Please, look at what the RCC teaches! They teach a DIFFERENT GOSPEL! Sacraments, idolatry, works....are people so unaware of the importance of what you believe?

Do you know that there are two Holy Days committed to Mary, that if you miss Mass on those days, you LOSE your salvation, because you are not in a "state of grace"?


You MUST believe Mary was Immaculately conceived, you MUST believe she was ever Virgin, you MUST believe her as "Queen of Heaven"! C'mon people! THAT is NOT Christianity! That is Goddess worship!


As Paul said, some may need to "examine yourselves to see in you are in the faith"!

Why, then is my friend who is a deacon in the Catholic church who does not believe all of these things under the knowledge of the bishop still an accepted deacon? He is on his way to seminary with these beliefs and has been accepted to seminary. So your statements don't really ring very true.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Do Muslims put their faith in Jesus Christ, God incarnate, who was born, lived and died on the cross for our sins then rose victorious from the grave to conquer death and that by trusting on Him for our salvation, we are saved? No? Well then no, they are not saved.

First, you say that Muslims cannot be saved because they don't put their faith in Christ.

Then, you say that Mormons cannot be saved because, although they do put their faith in Christ, it isn't the "correct" Christ.

So why, then, does it not stand to reason that a person can put his belief in the "correct" Christ, but still not be saved because his belief is wrong?

Are all beliefs valid, simply because the object of the belief is valid?

I thought you were a landmarkist in historical approach to Christianity.

In my wildest dreams, I can't possibly imagine where you got that idea. While not heretical, I find Landmarkism to be a very silly belief and have never said anything in support of it.

The reformation should mean nothing to you as you have a seperate history.

Actually, as a Bible believing Christian, the Reformation means a great deal to me. It is a vital part of our history.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

First, you say that Muslims cannot be saved because they don't put their faith in Christ.

Then, you say that Mormons cannot be saved because, although they do put their faith in Christ, it isn't the "correct" Christ.

So why, then, does it not stand to reason that a person can put his belief in the "correct" Christ, but still not be saved because his belief is wrong?

Are all beliefs valid, simply because the object of the belief is valid?



In my wildest dreams, I can't possibly imagine where you got that idea. While not heretical, I find Landmarkism to be a very silly belief and have never said anything in support of it.



Actually, as a Bible believing Christian, the Reformation means a great deal to me. It is a vital part of our history.

Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else. In that case I retract my landmarkist remark as the reformation is very much a part of our history. Yes the reformation was for a significant reason.

 

[Jim1999]

If we are talking about the Roman Catholic Church, its doctrines and practices, I have nothing but contempt for it. As Mr. Spurgeon once said, "An ape was never such an ape as when he wore a papal cape."

If we are talking, however, about people, who happen to be Roman Catholic, I believe there are people who truly believe in Jesus and trust Him to be their Saviour, quite apart from that church.

As for the Reformation by Luther, it surely is a part of history, but it is not all of history, and it is essentially a reformation of the Romish church by dissidents of that church. It does not negate other history which lends itself properly to landmarkism. Their were groups of believers that were not participants of the Reformation, and were persecuted by Luther and even Calvin.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Peggy]

I believe that Catholics are indeed Christian. I also believe that mere membership of a church does not save you.

Catholics believe in the tenents of the Apostles, Nicene, and Athenasian Creeds, which succinctly describe the basic beliefs of the Christian faith. Triune God, Virgin birth, Christ as the once-for-all atoning sacrifice for sin, the Holy Spirit. They also believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. I have close friends who are Catholic, and they are some of the finest Christians you would care to meet.

I think a lot of the dispute between Baptists and Catholics are Baptists misunderstanding what Catholics believe and why they believe it. I am astounded at the bad feelings that some here have towards Catholics, and heartened by the saner replies.

 

[Baptist4life]

Show me that they believe this.

I posted a link, but apparently it's not allowed since that whole post is now gone.


USA : HOLY DAYS OF OBLIGATION

The days to be observed as holy days of obligation in the Latin Rite dioceses of the United States of America, in conformity with canon 1246, are as follows:

Every Sunday

January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God; (Except in Southern California. Why? I don’t know) Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

MORTAL SIN=Grave Sin + Knowledge+ Free Choice CCC

II. THE PRECEPTS OF THE CHURCH These are the bare minimum that a person must do to be in good standing in the Faith of Jesus Christ.

2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2042 The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.82 The second precept (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year”) ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.83

The third precept (“You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season”) guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.84

2043 The fourth precept (“You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church”) ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.