Your View On The Roman Catholics

[ReformedBaptist]

1. I've had many discussions with Catholics and have Catholic friends. I do not know of even one, who actually prays to Mary. They may ask for her help, but they do not pray to her the way one prays to Christ.

2. As for the bread and wine becoming the literal body of Christ; I've given this much thought. There are Scriptures that do point to this. I'm sure you are all aware of them. I plan to do more study regarding when the idea of the real presence began and when it fell out of favor with Protestants. Many of you may be farther along in your studies, and can provide some quotes from early church fathers compared to Reformation and Post-reformation writers. I welcome any resources you may have.

Regarding the Lord's Supper; we are most familiar with the passage, in Luke 22:19, where Christ says, "Do this in remembrance of me." These are usually the words spoken by Baptist ministers during the Lord's Supper.



However, in searching the Scriptures, I found many passages that speak of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Jesus said, "I am the bread of life."

Jesus also said, "unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;" and "my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink." So, do we accept His Words as spoken? Are they literal or symbolic?

John Chapter 6 has given me much to ponder on this issue:


I am rather perplexed by the way certain passages of Scripture, such as the creation story in Genesis, are taken literally; and others are reduced to allegory.

I don't think we can condemn our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, because they accept Christ's words, literally, as spoken. I do not see how this is teaching a different Gospel.

Many other passages of Scripture also point to consuming the body and blood of Christ.








3. As for the Pope and Apostolic Succession, I need to do more study on that issue. I do admire the unity in belief of the Catholic Church.

There are times when I feel like I am drowning in a sea of Protestant voices.
There are so many disagreements within Protestantism. So I'm not sure how well we are doing.

I have attended churches where Baptist ministers required far more loyalty to their teachings, than the Pope expects from Catholics.

4. As for indulgences, I need to do more study on that as well. I can say that I have seen some disturbing practices with Protestant TV Evangelists connecting sending them donations within a certain time period to receive your own financial blessings. So, Protestants have some issues regarding money, also.

I do believe in studying and get all the facts in any situation. I think if we want to know what Catholics believe, we should ask Catholics directly.

I do believe that Catholics are Christians. From some of the angry posts against Catholics already posted here, I have a feeling some of you may hate me as well.

In Christ,
Anna

So you believe a group of people who murdered millions of men, women, and children and deny christ are Christians are worthy of admiration?

wow

 

[Revmitchell]

1. I've had many discussions with Catholics and have Catholic friends. I do not know of even one, who actually prays to Mary. They may ask for her help, but they do not pray to her the way one prays to Christ.

So what is the difference between a prayer to Mary and a prayer to Christ?

 

[Marcia]

2. As for the bread and wine becoming the literal body of Christ; I've given this much thought. There are Scriptures that do point to this. I'm sure you are all aware of them. I plan to do more study regarding when the idea of the real presence began and when it fell out of favor with Protestants. Many of you may be farther along in your studies, and can provide some quotes from early church fathers compared to Reformation and Post-reformation writers. I welcome any resources you may have.

Regarding the Lord's Supper; we are most familiar with the passage, in Luke 22:19, where Christ says, "Do this in remembrance of me." These are usually the words spoken by Baptist ministers during the Lord's Supper.

However, in searching the Scriptures, I found many passages that speak of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Jesus said, "I am the bread of life."

Jesus also said, "unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;" and "my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink." So, do we accept His Words as spoken? Are they literal or symbolic?

John Chapter 6 has given me much to ponder on this issue:

When Jesus said "I am the bread of life," this was clearly a metaphor. He also said "I am the door" in a similar context.

As for John 6, this was before the last supper and what he was explaining is that he is life, and that to eat his flesh and drink his blood is believing in Him. If you read the passage very carefully, you will see that this is what he is saying, not that we are to literally eat him. If we have to eat his body to be saved, then we are not saved by faith.

Moreover, to believe that wine and bread actually turns into the body of Christ is to sacrifice him again, which is totally unbiblical, not to mention a horrendous and unnecessary action. We are saved when we believe, not when we eat his flesh.

I am rather perplexed by the way certain passages of Scripture, such as the creation story in Genesis, are taken literally; and others are reduced to allegory.

Context determines the meaning. Actually, I don't know any allegory in the Bible except for a few brief passages where the bible says it's an allegory. Parables are not allegories, btw. Visionary passages, such as in Daniel and Revelation, are not allegory either. They are prophetic. There is narrative, poetry,prophecy, metaphor, parables, apocalyptic, and wisdom literature in the Bible. I suggest a good book like "How to Read the Bible as Literature" by Leland Ryken and "Read the Bible for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart (I do not agree with all their conclusions but most of it is very helpful).

I don't think we can condemn our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, because they accept Christ's words, literally, as spoken. I do not see how this is teaching a different Gospel.

They add works to the gospel. And no one is condemning them; it's the teachings of the Catholic Church that people have issues with.

3. As for the Pope and Apostolic Succession, I need to do more study on that issue. I do admire the unity in belief of the Catholic Church.

There is not really that much unity. For example, the Catholics in this country often ignore the Pope or the official teachings of the church. Also, in many Catholic countries, hardly anyone even attends Mass anymore.

There are times when I feel like I am drowning in a sea of Protestant voices.
There are so many disagreements within Protestantism. So I'm not sure how well we are doing.

Disgreement, as long as it's not on the essentials of the faith, is not always a bad thing. It's fine to disagree on secondary issues.

4. As for indulgences, I need to do more study on that as well. I can say that I have seen some disturbing practices with Protestant TV Evangelists connecting sending them donations within a certain time period to receive your own financial blessings. So, Protestants have some issues regarding money, also.

But these are not biblical teachings and are done by extreme groups (mostly charismatic). There will always be false teachings everywhere in Christendom; this has nothing to do with whether what the Catholic church teaches is valid and biblical.

I do believe in studying and get all the facts in any situation. I think if we want to know what Catholics believe, we should ask Catholics directly.

No, we shouldn't. Read the official catechism; that's what counts. Catholics often don't know what their Church teaches.

 

[BaptistQuestioning]

No, I am not Catholic. Why would you think I am Catholic?

Read your post #138.

So you believe a group of people who murdered millions of men, women, and children and deny christ are Christians are worthy of admiration?

wow

After being here only one day, I am stunned by the amount of hatred here--especially toward Catholics. My goodness, this is disturbing.

No one responded the the content of my post or the Scriptures or even the issues. Aren't we to search the Scriptures? Are we not called to love one another? Am I only going to be accepted here if I say that Catholics are not Christians?

What reason have you given me to stay for a second day?

 

[Baptist4life]

After being here only one day, I am stunned by the amount of hatred here--especially toward Catholics. My goodness, this is disturbing.

No one responded the the content of my post or the Scriptures or even the issues. Aren't we to search the Scriptures? Are we not called to love one another? Am I only going to be accepted here if I say that Catholics are not Christians?

What reason have you given me to stay for a second day?

I see no hatred towards catholics, only the RCC.
I would ask if you are a Christian? And if so, how long have you been saved?

 

[Marcia]

After being here only one day, I am stunned by the amount of hatred here--especially toward Catholics. My goodness, this is disturbing.

No one responded the the content of my post or the Scriptures or even the issues. Aren't we to search the Scriptures? Are we not called to love one another? Am I only going to be accepted here if I say that Catholics are not Christians?

What reason have you given me to stay for a second day?

I responded to almost every point in post #143!

 

[Revmitchell]

After being here only one day, I am stunned by the amount of hatred here--especially toward Catholics. My goodness, this is disturbing.

Hatred huh? Such extreme exaggerations simply because you do not like opposition to the heretical catholic church is nothing more than a false accusation. There has been no hatred only disagreement.

 

[Revmitchell]

What reason have you given me to stay for a second day?

again I ask So what is the difference between a prayer to Mary and a prayer to Christ?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

After being here only one day, I am stunned by the amount of hatred here--especially toward Catholics. My goodness, this is disturbing.

No one responded the the content of my post or the Scriptures or even the issues. Aren't we to search the Scriptures? Are we not called to love one another? Am I only going to be accepted here if I say that Catholics are not Christians?

What reason have you given me to stay for a second day?

Give me a break. Are you stunned when people show contempt and disgust toward Hitler and what he did to Jews and Christians?

Then why do you sit there in astonishment when I am repulsed by such an Antichristian thing as the papacy that is responsible for the murder of 70million people?

And I don't care whether you stay or go.

 

[BaptistQuestioning]

When Jesus said "I am the bread of life," this was clearly a metaphor. He also said "I am the door" in a similar context.

As for John 6, this was before the last supper and what he was explaining is that he is life, and that to eat his flesh and drink his blood is believing in Him. If you read the passage very carefully, you will see that this is what he is saying, not that we are to literally eat him. If we have to eat his body to be saved, then we are not saved by faith.

Moreover, to believe that wine and bread actually turns into the body of Christ is to sacrifice him again, which is totally unbiblical, not to mention a horrendous and unnecessary action. We are saved when we believe, not when we eat his flesh.

Context determines the meaning. Actually, I don't know any allegory in the Bible except for a few brief passages where the bible says it's an allegory. Parables are not allegories, btw. Visionary passages, such as in Daniel and Revelation, are not allegory either. They are prophetic. There is narrative, poetry,prophecy, metaphor, parables, apocalyptic, and wisdom literature in the Bible. I suggest a good book like "How to Read the Bible as Literature" by Leland Ryken and "Read the Bible for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart (I do not agree with all their conclusions but most of it is very helpful).

They add works to the gospel. And no one is condemning them; it's the teachings of the Catholic Church that people have issues with.


There is not really that much unity. For example, the Catholics in this country often ignore the Pope or the official teachings of the church. Also, in many Catholic countries, hardly anyone even attends Mass anymore.


Disgreement, as long as it's not on the essentials of the faith, is not always a bad thing. It's fine to disagree on secondary issues.



But these are not biblical teachings and are done by extreme groups (mostly charismatic). There will always be false teachings everywhere in Christendom; this has nothing to do with whether what the Catholic church teaches is valid and biblical.

No, we shouldn't. Read the official catechism; that's what counts. Catholics often don't know what their Church teaches.

Marcia,

I do not agree with everything you said, but I appreciate the fact that you dealt with the issues, instead of asking me if I'm Catholic; or asking me if I believe a group of people who murdered millions of men, women, and children and deny christ are Christians are worthy of admiration.

 

[BaptistQuestioning]

I see no hatred towards catholics, only the RCC.
I would ask if you are a Christian? And if so, how long have you been saved?

I was baptized age the age of 7 in a Baptist Church. I am 54 now. What does this have to do with this issues of this thread?

 

[Revmitchell]

Marcia,

I do not agree with everything you said, but I appreciate the fact that you dealt with the issues, instead of asking me if I'm Catholic; or asking me if I believe a group of people who murdered millions of men, women, and children and deny christ[sic] are Christians are worthy of admiration.

Really? I asked you if what is the difference between a prayer to Mary and a prayer to Christ. It seems you cannot answer it.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I was baptized age the age of 7 in a Baptist Church. I am 54 now. What does this have to do with this issues of this thread?

Being baptized at the age of 7 in a Baptist church:

1. Does not make you a Christian.
2. Does not make you a Baptist.

I think what he asked was when did God actually save you.

 

[BaptistQuestioning]

Give me a break. Are you stunned when people show contempt and disgust toward Hitler and what he did to Jews and Christians?

Then why do you sit there in astonishment when I am repulsed by such an Antichristian thing as the papacy that is responsible for the murder of 70million people?

And I don't care whether you stay or go.

I will gladly go. At least you cleared up any lingering questions I had about the Baptist church.

 

[Baptist4life]

I was baptized age the age of 7 in a Baptist Church.

That has NOTHING to do with your salvation. If all you did was get baptized, all you got was wet.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I will gladly go. At least you cleared up any lingering questions I had about the Baptist church.

I don't think you had anyting but an agenda you were bringing to this board.

 

[Baptist4life]

I don't think you had anyting but an agenda you were bringing to this board.

I agree. I think he was a RC in disguise.

 

[Marcia]

Marcia,

I do not agree with everything you said, but I appreciate the fact that you dealt with the issues, instead of asking me if I'm Catholic; or asking me if I believe a group of people who murdered millions of men, women, and children and deny christ are Christians are worthy of admiration.

I think sometimes there is overreaction here, partly because this has been a hot issue lately and some people have strong feelings on it. It's also been heavily debated down in Other Christian Denominations.

Don't take all responses as typical. Hang around a bit more. Also, maybe because you seemed to express so much sympathy for Catholicism, it caused that reaction. This is a Baptist forum and many feel the Reformation has been forgotten, so to speak.

 

[Revmitchell]

I will gladly go. At least you cleared up any lingering questions I had about the Baptist church.

Baloney you came in here with a deceitful agenda which was exhibited by your user name. Then you immediately went to the catholic threads and began attacking those who oppose that heretical church. You may have attended a Baptist church at some point in your life but it is clear you are not now. You have fooled no one. And feigning offense and playing a victim only further reveals who you are.

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree. I think he was a RC in disguise.

As do I.......Since praying to Mary is not praying.