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Another question for Catholics...
- Thread starter JohnDeereFan
- Start date
So basically you hold to universalism. Anyone who calls themselves a Christian, though they live like the devil, are a Christian.
You have gone from one extreme to the other. In fact you really have embraced true universalism. You even accept Muslims as saved according to the recent Catechism. Salvation is no longer through Christ alone. Even Muslims can go to heaven. The RCC is universal accepting any and all religions as "Christian". How pitiful.
Good try annsni:
Actually, I've known plenty of the people who jump in the communion lines of our church believing just that. Yest you are a catholic Christian, no you (as yet::smilewinkgrin:
are not a member of the Roman Catholic Church. It would be a sign that there is not yet a unity in belief of the Lords Supper.This may not be the place to share this, but as I was signing off last night, I had some neighbors stop in to meet and greet each other. They notice we had Bibles and other religious items in various parts of our house. They asked us if we were 'religious'. We answered no, but that we are Christians and as such try by His Spirit to follow him as Lord and Savior. The wife mentioned she was the daughter of a minister and that had left the church as soon as she began attending college. Here husband had NEVER been to church except for weddings and funerals. Said it was enough for him.
We had opportunity to share our testimony with them and how Jesus has brought meaning and hope into our lives. We shared that our marriage was near the end before re-committing our lives to Christ.
They asked us what we do differently now. We shared we start each day in God's word and in prayer asking Him to lead us in ways we might share Christ with others.
Both mentioned that their marriage had seen better times and that 'spirituality' might be just what was needed. We shared with them a few verses from Romans (3:23, 6:23, 10:9) and asked if they felt comfortable praying with us. They said they did. (We led them in the following prayer) They asked God for forgiveness for their past sins, professed that they believed Jesus was the Son of God and that he died on the Cross for their Sins, and that they believed God raised Him from the dead as proof that Jesus was God's Son. They asked him to come into their hearts and to guide them as their Lord and Savior.
Please pray for these precious people. We invited them to attend church with us at the Freewill Baptist Church down the street. (We never shared we attend a Catholic Church) These dear friends of ours at Freewill Baptist know how to welcome new comers.
Since we a new to the area, we are trying to find other belliever (and non-believer) that we can pray and study with.
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DHK, you are SO wrong! If I believed in universalism I would spend my time in service organizations instead of evangelistic efforts asking the Lord guide me in witnessing to the lost.
I know Baptist(SBC) who call themselves Christian (my next door neighbors) who regularly compete with others in the neighborhood to see who can empty the most beer kegs. I can't even begin to list the obscenity that emits from their parties. I hear Jesus and God mentioned often, but not in the way you would like he hear them.
The Baptist College my niece now attends (Redlands University) openly admits it adheres to universalism. Openly embraces homosexual partnerships, says to interpret the bible only within the historical context it was written, Got rid of their chapel services some years back. Are all Baptist saved! Walk around the grounds of Redlands University and tell me those students are providing a witness for Christ! How about cleaning up your own Baptist backyard before condemning the 'heresies' in other. What was that about plucking the splinter out of your brothers eye when there is a log in yours.
Re-read the part of in the Catechism about Muslims. It never says ALL Muslims are saved. Read it and then tell me what it REALLY says! You pick and choose what you want to believe about the Catechism and then post it on this board as HERESY!
Just because someone says they are Baptist doesn't mean they are. I know many who claim to be Catholic and they don't believe anything the Catholic church says - but they were baptized, confirmed and some even married in the Catholic church. Does that mean they're good representations of Catholics?
I held information back. The husband has been an elder in one of the largest conservative Baptist Churches in our area. These neighbors hold regular prayer meetings in the home (not on the same night as the beer bashes), the wife is a Sunday School teacher and the list of their 'activities' and commitments to their Baptist church makes me nauseous. The fact is, the husband has actually invited me over for drinks and admitted that people in his church might not approve so he would appreciate it if my wife and I kept that 'our little secret'. I had to decline his invitation.
This man is actually being considered as a candidate for the Associate Pastorate' in this large Baptist Church. He has a lot of people fooled. Lord Help That Baptist Church!
I have witnessed to him about the change my wife and I experienced after turning our lives and wills over to the care of Jesus Christ. His response: That good, Praise the Lord! That was the end of the discussion. He has gone out of his way to avoid talking to us and I don't expect to be invited to any more of his little 'cocktail parties' again. There are other folks on our block that know we follow Jesus, know we attend the Catholic Church, fellowship and pray with us as brothers and Sisters in Christ.
BTW, Annsi, I do hear you. I know plenty of Catholics that haven't darkened the door of ANY church since their baptism, confirmation, marriage, etc.
Lots of Catholics running around and all they got at their baptism was WET!
Faith must follow.
And you are using him as a representation for the Baptist church? So what? Honestly, he is doing a very poor representation and is most likely not saved if all you say is true. He's playing a part - but is not the real thing. But as I said, I know Catholics in the same sort of situation so let's not use "I know someone who...." to prove who might be right or wrong because I could point to a Buddhist man who has served so many and is a wonderful man - a GREAT representation of what a Christian is. However, his soul is dead. How about instead we talk about what JESUS wants. OK?
Jesus did give us his marching orders, didn't He.
Actually, you were the one that used the example of the 'poor un-regenerate' Catholics who live like hell. Let's agree to not use the 'I know someone who' cause unfortunately, I think we all do.
I witness to ANYONE regardless of past denominational background, religious bigotry, lack of faith, fanatical J.W., etc.
Again, I must sign off for the day. Another Catholic Evangelism Retreat. Please pray many will repent and turn to Jesus as Savior and Lord. AMEN
If faith must follow, and salvation comes by faith, what is the teaching that a child who is baptized will enter heaven but one who is not will not?
I getting ready for a barrage from both the pro-infant baptism poster and the anti-infant baptism poster.
I assume, you believe in an age of 'accountability' at which point a person decides if he/she chooses to accept Christ as Savior and Lord. He/she professes his/her faith and consequently in following the Lords command is then baptized. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Catholics, Lutheran, Anglicans, Orthodox Catholics, etc. believe in a covenantal relationship between that child and God. Similar in some respects to circumcision in adult male babies. The child is baptized and (non-speaking) the answers are given in his/her behalf by the parents and others in attendance.
Q: Do you renounces Satan and all the spiritual forces of wickendness that rebel agains Gd?
A: I renounce them
Q: Do you renounce all sinful desires that draws you from the Love of God
A: I renounce them
Q: Do you turn to Jesus Christ and and accept Him as your Savior
A: I do
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Somehow that got posted before I was through.
The congregants make a commitment to do all in their power to support this person in their life in Christ.
The child/infant is then baptised in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
That child and the people who affirmed they would do all in their power to bring that child up into the faith of the Christian church are now charged with the responsibility to do just that.
At the age of confirmation (you call it the age of accountability) that child must make on His/Her own their own recommitment to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
How many adults who made those commitments follow through and guide that person Sunday School, catechism, etc. How many see to it that they go with their own children and attend church on Sunday or have other more important things pressing IE: Superbowl, morning meditations on the golf course?
The congregants make a commitment to do all in their power to support this person in their life in Christ.
The child/infant is then baptised in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
That child and the people who affirmed they would do all in their power to bring that child up into the faith of the Christian church are now charged with the responsibility to do just that.
At the age of confirmation (you call it the age of accountability) that child must make on His/Her own their own recommitment to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
How many adults who made those commitments follow through and guide that person Sunday School, catechism, etc. How many see to it that they go with their own children and attend church on Sunday or have other more important things pressing IE: Superbowl, morning meditations on the golf course?
So the parent is saying "I do" accept Jesus Christ as Savior for the child? How can that be if the child has not made that choice?
We do that in dedication but a child dedication has nothing to do with the child's salvation.
Well, for those who believe in an age of accountability, they do not peg it at 12 or 13. It would be an age where God would know if they were able to be held accountable or not. I'm not so positive about an "age of accountability" because I think we're all held accountable.
What does that have to do with salvation?
Also, there are those in the LCMS who contend we don't know what a infant is capable of believing or not believing. God is God and can just because the infant cannot verbalize anything to you doesn't mean he/she is incapable of communicating with God. I'm just saying! Please don't say Lori4dogs adheres to this thinking.
When that child comes to the age where (of his/her) freewill openly commits their life to the Lord Jesus. The promises made on their behalf are valid. If, on the other hand, a person (reaching the age of reason) rejects Christ and of their freewill walks in the way of the world and chooses to follow Satan, all they got in their baptism was wet.
There will be some on this board who are supporter of infant baptism that believe that child is sealed until the day they die. I believe baptism (adult/child) without genuine repentance and profession of faith in Jesus death, and resurrection have no saving faith. It is a matter of choice. And may I add, to not make a choice is in fact making a choice.
But you don't have any authority from the Bible, any example from the Bible, any evidence from the Bible, no support from the Bible whatsoever that infant baptism should be practiced. It is a man-made doctrine, anti-biblical; anti-God; and deceives people into thinking that they are ready for heaven, when in fact they are on their way to hell.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: DHK, why do you support the man made doctrine of original sin, that is anti biblical and deceives people into believing their babies are sinful yet fit for heaven when in fact IF they were sinful the blame lies on the God that created as they were created, and punishes them for something they had absolutely no choice in? If they are born in sin they are fit for hell and nowhere else. Why do you paint such a horrible blight upon the character of a Holy and Just God is beyond me. If they were sinful they would be on their way straight to a devil’s hell apart from repentance and faith in Christ. You have absolutely no authority from Scripture whatsoever to manufacture some notion that God saves them apart from the conditions He mandates for all sinners to comply with, without which all shall perish according to Scripture.
Let the reader clearly understand that I DO NOT support infant baptism, but neither do I support creating doctrines out of thin air that says God saves sinners (in this case said to be infant sinners) apart from repentance and faith, something impossible to conceive infants being able to do and certainly not supported anywhere in Scripture.
Are you so good that you can tell God: beam me up any time Lord; I am your man. And when I get there I will thank you for the pure innocent nature that you gave me that never gave me any desire to sin whatsoever. In fact I am thankful that my nature was divine, just like Christ's.
Is that your testimony?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: If any man is righteous in God’s eyes that has reached the age of accountability, they owe their righteousness to One and One only, Jesus Christ. He alone can make us righteous.
HP: A nature with desires to selfishness (and IF yielded to becomes sin) is not sin DHK. It is indeed a proclivity to sin, but is not sin until yielded to. During our tenure on this earth is the time to get right and answer to God, and I have done that. I have repented of my sins and asked the Lord to forgive me and to strengthen my inner man to obey Him as I walk with Him daily.
We are born with a proclivity to sin through the sensibilities of a fallen physical nature, and are indeed tempted to sin. God also instills within us a conscience through with the Holy Spirit enlightens us to proper behavior, even if in a very limited manner. The proclivity to sin or temptation to sin is not sin. It is not sin until my will forms intents in agreement to those selfish desires, sins, and becomes guilty before God.
HP: Christ took upon Himself the very nature of man, the very seed of Abraham. No man is born sinful, and neither are we as men born Divine. We are born neither holy nor righteous, but rather born with the capacity for either. All men other than Christ have sinned upon coming to the age of accountability. He alone is without sin.