Explain why God is patient with men if indeed men have nothing to do with being saved

[Skandelon]

Why does God continually express his patience with people with regard to their being saved IF indeed they have nothing to do with being saved? What exactly is God waiting on? Himself? Why does it say he is patient with YOU, if YOU don't do anything?

Here are a few passage that express this patience:
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2Pe 3:9 -
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.[/FONT]

Rom. 10:21 -
But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."

Mt 23:37 - [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"O Jerusalem! Jerusalem that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, yet you were not willing! [/FONT]

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[/FONT]What is God waiting on? Thanks.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
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[Robert Snow]

Why does God continually express his patience with people with regard to their being saved IF indeed they have nothing to do with being saved? What exactly is God waiting on? Himself? Why does it say he is patient with YOU, if YOU don't do anything?
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[/FONT]What is God waiting on? Thanks.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
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Good question. In fact, why even preach at all, since many Calvinist believe the elect are saved from birth. It seems they view this material existence as simply a godly charade were man is commanded to do what God knows he cannot do. Then man is sent to preach to every creature all the while God knowing it will do no good at all. This appears to be antithetical to what I read in the Scripture!

 

[Crabtownboy]

Good question. In fact, why even preach at all, since many Calvinist believe the elect are saved from birth. It seems they view this material existence as simply a godly charade were man is commanded to do what God knows he cannot do. Then man is sent to preach to every creature all the while God knowing it will do no good at all. This appears to be antithetical to what I read in the Scripture!

You have given basically the same argument that Calvinists used to how there was no need to send missionaries to the lost. If God wanted the save they were already of the elect and did not need missionaries to tell them about Christ. Thank goodness Carey, Taylor and others did not agree.

 

[annsni]

Good question. In fact, why even preach at all, since many Calvinist believe the elect are saved from birth. It seems they view this material existence as simply a godly charade were man is commanded to do what God knows he cannot do. Then man is sent to preach to every creature all the while God knowing it will do no good at all. This appears to be antithetical to what I read in the Scripture!

Who says man is saved from birth? How can he be?

 

[Grasshopper]

You have given basically the same argument that Calvinists used to how there was no need to send missionaries to the lost. If God wanted the save they were already of the elect and did not need missionaries to tell them about Christ. Thank goodness Carey, Taylor and others did not agree.

Would that be William Carey?

Theological/Eschatological positions: William Carey was a devout Calvinist in the matters of a systematic approach to Biblical hermeneutics. He maintained the Post-Millennial position.

http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/carey/caindex.htm

 

[Grasshopper]

...............http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/carey/caindex.htm

 

[Skandelon]

Why does God continually express his patience with people with regard to their being saved IF indeed they have nothing to do with being saved? What exactly is God waiting on? Himself? Why does it say he is patient with YOU, if YOU don't do anything?
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[/FONT]What is God waiting on? Thanks.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
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Still haven't seen an answer to this question. What is God waiting on? It says he is "patient with you," but if YOU don't do anything (the claim of "monergism") then what is God patiently waiting on?

 

[Skandelon]

I would like to thank all the Calvinists for teaching me patience as I await an answer to this question. Only if I had an effectual way to make you answer, then I wouldn't have to be patient, or would I?

 

[Grasshopper]

I would like to thank all the Calvinists for teaching me patience as I await an answer to this question. Only if I had an effectual way to make you answer, then I wouldn't have to be patient, or would I?

Perhaps people tire of debating someone who obviously has no clue what Calvinists believe. You build strawmen and then pat yourself on the back when you knock it down. Your question proves my point. You say this: "if indeed men have nothing to do with being saved."

Can you point me to any Reformed Theologian who believes this? If not your question is moot. Until you can provide documentation from one who believes this, why would a Calvinist bother with this foolishness?

 

[Skandelon]

You build strawmen and then pat yourself on the back when you knock it down. Your question proves my point. You say this: "if indeed men have nothing to do with being saved."

What specific strawmen have I built? If you are going to bring an accusation, please be willing to support it.

With regard to your example, I was referring to the statements made in another thread about monergism...which, yes, I should have, technically speaking, worded, "if they have nothing to do with regeneration" ...which any of us would agree is the heart of salvation.

Interestingly enough, it doesn't change the question of this OP. What is God waiting on?

 

[Robert Snow]

Skandelon, it is easy to see the objection here by the Calvinistic posters that they are tired of being posed questions that show the errors of Calvinism. When I was first saved I was warned to be wary of this false doctrine. I have lived to see it spread like a cancer in many good baptist churches. Fortunately, there are also many good baptist churches that reject this belief. I am fortunate to attend such a church. Like I said in another thread, there is no way I would attend, or even visit, a reformed church.

I hate this false doctrine and feel sorry for those who are enslaved by it. Hopefully, like you, many of these good Christians will see the error of their way and find there way out of its clutches.

 

[Winman]

Skandelon, it is easy to see the objection here by the Calvinistic posters that they are tired of being posed questions that show the errors of Calvinism.

Exactly. Truth is, they cannot answer this question and they know it. So they ignore it or try to change the subject.

Calvinists love to think themselves superior, especially in doctrine. They try to intimidate those who do not know the scriptures well. But Calvinism is actually very easy to show false by scripture, and if you stand up to them they run to the hills or their commentaries.

 

[Grasshopper]

Exactly. Truth is, they cannot answer this question and they know it. So they ignore it or try to change the subject.

Calvinists love to think themselves superior, especially in doctrine. They try to intimidate those who do not know the scriptures well. But Calvinism is actually very easy to show false by scripture, and if you stand up to them they run to the hills or their commentaries.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Please spare us all the lectures Winman.

Hypocrisy is your middle name: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63301&page=10

When the questions got tough you ran for the hills. Then you claim you didn't want to keep debating endlessly, yet this is exactly what you do on every Calvinist discussion...on and on and on.........

 

[Winman]

Nice, try to change the subject.

But did you attempt to answer the question? No.

I actually spent quite some time debating Preterism. I didn't ignore it whatsoever.

I just went back and counted my responses in that post. I responded 33 times!

And you call me a hypocrite? No, I clicked on your name once and looked up past posts. I saw that you have been arguing with people about Preterism for over 5 years. Many people answered you with sound doctrine. If they didn't convince you in all that time, I realized I was not going to either. And that is what I said in my last post there. I am not going to argue with someone who has their mind completely made up and is not responsive to scripture that refutes your belief.

Still bugging you too, I see.

 

[Grasshopper]

Nice, try to change the subject.

But did you attempt to answer the question? No.

I actually spent quite some time debating Preterism. I didn't ignore it whatsoever.

I just went back and counted my responses in that post. I responded 33 times!

And you call me a hypocrite? No, I clicked on your name once and looked up past posts. I saw that you have been arguing with people about Preterism for over 5 years. Many people answered you with sound doctrine. If they didn't convince you in all that time, I realized I was not going to either. And that is what I said in my last post there. I am not going to argue with someone who has their mind completely made up and is not responsive to scripture that refutes your belief.

Still bugging you too, I see.

WOW! 33 times. How many times do you think you've posted on Calvinism since then? Do you really think you are going to convince those to whom you are currently debating? Especially considering your obvious lack of understanding as to what those who are Reformed actually believe.

 

[paul wassona]

So, Grasshopper, you seem to be the only one who disagrees, but that's all we see is your disagreement with no substancial evdidences of why. You just keep hammering against others over and over. I think the "head" has fallen off.

 

[annsni]

Grasshopper is not the only one. The rest of us are just tired of arguing with those who don't see the truth. It's not worth my time, to be quite honest. To see one person post the same thing over and over and over and over and over again reminds me of my kids when they were like 2 years old. But they've matured. I hope the OP does too.

 

[Rippon]

Skandelon, it is easy to see the objection here by the Calvinistic posters that they are tired of being posed questions that show the errors of Calvinism.

It would be expedient for you to know what we actually believe instead of just being a flame-thrower.

When I was first saved I was warned to be wary of this false doctrine.

He/she must have been quite ill-informed. And it's not a singular doctrine.

I have lived to see it spread like a cancer in many good baptist [sic]churches. Fortunately, there are also many good baptist [sic]churches that reject this belief. I am fortunate to attend such a church. Like I said in another thread, there is no way I would attend, or even visit, a reformed church.

Too bad you are depriving yourself in this way.

I hate this false doctrine and feel sorry for those who are enslaved by it. Hopefully, like you, many of these good Christians will see the error of their way and find there [sic]way out of its clutches.

You are loopy.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Would that be William Carey?

Theological/Eschatological positions: William Carey was a devout Calvinist in the matters of a systematic approach to Biblical hermeneutics. He maintained the Post-Millennial position.

http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/carey/caindex.htm

Not only William Carey, but also Adoniram Judson, Hudson Taylor, David Livingstone, and many others.
And I can be pretty sure that essentially they did not go on missionary endeavors to save souls more than to preach of Christ and let Him do the work of conversion and do good works among those they reached out to.
Contrast that with today's Arminian missions to get souls won to Christ, get souls saved, etc., etc., and I know what I'm talking about because I was once Arminian and missionary, and most of those preachers when they got to "socializing" with each other talked of nothing more than how many were "saved" and how many were "baptized" and how much was last Sunday's offerings.
That was such a turn off to me.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Who says man is saved from birth? How can he be?

The Bible does not directly say so, but it tells us that the work of redemption is over (Hebrews 9:12) and so if it is, then Christ completed His task, and every elect child of God is redeemed, saved, but unregenerate because of their descendancy from Adam, and regeneration is the Holy Spirit's task, not the Son's or the Father's, and the Spirit regenerates His own apart from any means, when He wills.