Explain why God is patient with men if indeed men have nothing to do with being saved

[pinoybaptist]

I never said any of this. Why do you assume you can read my mind?
Please show eternal Salvation from the OT and that it was by grace?

LOL. so now you turn the tables on me ? I told you I wanted to know what you meant. Explain, if you can.
Now, same question I asked: Are you saying that in the Old Testament, no one was saved by grace ? All were saved by law ?

Like I said different covenants. God's response to believers was different in OT times. We have a new contract one that includeds the Gentiles and a different Law that superceeds the previous. We are to Love our neighbors as our selves and Love God with all we have this fulfills the old Law.

Let me see. The Gentiles were only included in the New Testament, you said. So, there were no exceptions ? Ruth was not a Jew. Rahab was not a Jew. That guy who dipped himself in the river seven times was not a Jew. Adam was not a Jew. Noah was not a Jew, yet he found grace, not law, before God's eyes.
Let me see.
Are you a seventh day Baptist, per chance ?

There is no man with out sin the only difference between men is Salvation.

True enough, on the first part. The second part as far as I am concerned, the only difference is that between two men, one does not have a Savior who took his sins on the cross with Him, and the other does.

Salvation does not save the flesh and sin still dwells with in it. Once we are raptured or ressurrected we will have a new body.

Academic.

I wonder how you know what color the Etheopian's new man is. How do you know if he even has a color? I've never seen a spirit.

Neither have I. And those words I used were simply picture words, like God used picture words in that Scripture to show how utterly depraved man truly is.

 

[pinoybaptist]

LOL Not one word of the underlined is true nor can it be proved from scripture. Like you did at the beginning of this post, you do to doctrine as well. You assume way to much of it. The gospel was written for the lost.

cannot be proven by Scripture ? Like a lot of people here, you assume that I am stupid and ignorant of Scripture, MB. Remember that when you point a finger at someone, three are pointing right back at you. Try it. LOL.

Well, you said the gospel was written for the lost. No scripture I'm aware of that says that. I know that Christ said He came to seek and to save that which is lost, and the Bible says He did exactly just that, unless, of course, you want to refute that Christ did that.

I have a scripture that says the gospel will not be heard or listened to by the lost. Written after the cross, after the blood, after Christ rose from the dead, after Christ went back to glory by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption for His people, after He said He will send the Holy Spirit.

You ready ? Here goes: 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

3 But if ourgospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost : 4 In whom the god of thisworld hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lestthelight of the gloriousgospel of Christ,whois the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
MB

Well, I have news for you. Those scriptures you just quoted were not even the gospel, strictly speaking. They were Scriptures. The gospel is in the Scripture, and according to Paul, the gospel is this:

1 Moreover,brethren, I declare unto you the gospelwhich I preached unto you,whichalso ye have received , andwhereinyestand ; 2 Bywhichalso ye are saved , if ye keep in memory whatIpreached unto you,unlessye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of allthatwhichIalsoreceived , how that Christdiedforoursinsaccording to the scriptures;4 Andthat he was buried , andthat he rose again the thirddayaccording to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

 

[MB]

LOL. so now you turn the tables on me ? I told you I wanted to know what you meant. Explain, if you can.
Now, same question I asked: Are you saying that in the Old Testament, no one was saved by grace ? All were saved by law ?

Are you saying there is another way of Salvation other than Christ? They didn't have the atonement of Christ. Believers were placed in Abrahams bossom Until Christ set the captives free. The OT saints were held in death's grip until death was defeated.
David wrote;
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psa 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

When David wrote this He was aware he wasn't going to heaven until the Lord showed him the path of life.

Let me see. The Gentiles were only included in the New Testament, you said. So, there were no exceptions ? Ruth was not a Jew. Rahab was not a Jew. That guy who dipped himself in the river seven times was not a Jew. Adam was not a Jew. Noah was not a Jew, yet he found grace, not law, before God's eyes.
Let me see.
Are you a seventh day Baptist, per chance ?

I didn't say the gentiles weren't included. Your doctrine makes that false claim by claiming election comes before Salvation and the foundation of the world. At the time there had only been one election and that was of the Jews alone. Gentiles were not chosen. Are you admitting that Ruth was saved with out election first?.

True enough, on the first part. The second part as far as I am concerned, the only difference is that between two men, one does not have a Savior who took his sins on the cross with Him, and the other does.

These scriptures aren't true?
Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

You had said "And as far as the Holy Spirit, there is nothing in Scripture that says man's old nature is removed from him," Didn't Paul say we have crucified it with Christ :
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Academic.



Neither have I. And those words I used were simply picture words, like God used picture words in that Scripture to show how utterly depraved man truly is.

While I admit man is a sinner and not deserving of anything from God I do not believe man is so totaly depraved that he has this disability of being able to hear and understand the gospel. It's unscionable to imagine such a thing and imagined it was.

 

[MB]

cannot be proven by Scripture ? Like a lot of people here, you assume that I am stupid and ignorant of Scripture,

Not so Pinoy

MB. Remember that when you point a finger at someone, three are pointing right back at you. Try it. LOL.

Well, you said the gospel was written for the lost. No scripture I'm aware of that says that.

I just showed you the answer we must believe the gospel or we are not saved. and it's the message Christ gave the lost. He didn't give it to the righteous.

I know that Christ said He came to seek and to save that which is lost, and the Bible says He did exactly just that, unless, of course, you want to refute that Christ did that.

I have a scripture that says the gospel will not be heard or listened to by the lost. Written after the cross, after the blood, after Christ rose from the dead, after Christ went back to glory by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption for His people, after He said He will send the Holy Spirit.

You ready ? Here goes: 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

3 But if ourgospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost : 4 In whom the god of thisworld hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lestthelight of the gloriousgospel of Christ,whois the image of God, should shine unto them.

Like a lot of people you only read what you want to accept. What about this part of that same verse.
"lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
For the gospel to shine on them is what every sinner needs and is what the preacher is for. We shine the light on the sinner so he can see. He needs the light because he's in darkness.
MB

 

[Winman]

Well, you said the gospel was written for the lost. No scripture I'm aware of that says that.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Here, the writer of Hebrews (most likely Paul) says the gospel was preached to unbelievers.

And contrary to what you believe, the gospel is intended to be preached to the spiritually dead, not living.

1 Pet 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

God does not regenerate you and then preach the gospel to you. No, the gospel is preached to a man that is spiritually dead, and if he believes he will be regenerated, made alive, saved.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus commanded his disciples to go into "all the world" and preach the gospel to "every creature". And we know he meant all men, because in the next verse he says those that believe shall be saved, and those who do not believe shall be damned.

There are many verses besides these that show the gospel was written and preached for all men, not just some.