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Reverence in God's house
- Thread starter abcgrad94
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It's ok, JMSR. If a barn was good enough for Christ's birth, I'm sure he won't mind one being used as the church's meeting room.:thumbsup:
Sorry, but I must do this:
"Shut the door, will ya? What's the matter with you, were you born again in a barn?"
:applause::applause:
Thank you, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitresses...
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Without quoting anyone in particular, because I KNOW I'm about to make some folk mad, let me ask a question.
Where is the scriptural mandate for building church buildings?
You can't use David and Soloman building the Temple, because scripture has already been presented that attests that God no longer lives in our church buildings (and if a reference wasn't given I'll be glad to provide one).
What specific church in the NT built a building to worship in? Which apostle tells us to go out and build churches for the glory of God?
We are told to build the body of Christ which is the true Church, but that body can't possibly be contained in a building and can easily be contained in our hearts.
I'm afraid, that buildning huge churches and "family life" centers is only a distraction in many churches from the single most important order God gave us: Go into the world and spread the gospel. The Bible tell us to go to the world, not for the world to come to us. We have focused on the general "We can hold 1000 people in this building and preach the gospel to all of 'em at once", but I believe our focus should be on the individual. If no one goes out to the community to tell the people that they are welcome in the church building, if no one welcome newcomers without judgement as they walk in the door, if no one thinks enough of the individual to sit them down and makes sure they understood what they heard in the santuacy, then that new church building isn't worth a hill of beans. (at least you can eat beans)
Let me point the finger at my own church. We have a lovely campus (yep campus means more than one building) with a beautiful gym that was built for the purposes of ministry. One of those ministries is Upward Basketball. The last few years, we've had to beg for coaches. No one wants to do the individual ministry. Its hard work. It disrupts our lives.
All the buildings in the world won't help us, if there aren't Christians willing to dig into the trenches.
Where is the scriptural mandate for building church buildings?
You can't use David and Soloman building the Temple, because scripture has already been presented that attests that God no longer lives in our church buildings (and if a reference wasn't given I'll be glad to provide one).
What specific church in the NT built a building to worship in? Which apostle tells us to go out and build churches for the glory of God?
We are told to build the body of Christ which is the true Church, but that body can't possibly be contained in a building and can easily be contained in our hearts.
I'm afraid, that buildning huge churches and "family life" centers is only a distraction in many churches from the single most important order God gave us: Go into the world and spread the gospel. The Bible tell us to go to the world, not for the world to come to us. We have focused on the general "We can hold 1000 people in this building and preach the gospel to all of 'em at once", but I believe our focus should be on the individual. If no one goes out to the community to tell the people that they are welcome in the church building, if no one welcome newcomers without judgement as they walk in the door, if no one thinks enough of the individual to sit them down and makes sure they understood what they heard in the santuacy, then that new church building isn't worth a hill of beans. (at least you can eat beans)
Let me point the finger at my own church. We have a lovely campus (yep campus means more than one building) with a beautiful gym that was built for the purposes of ministry. One of those ministries is Upward Basketball. The last few years, we've had to beg for coaches. No one wants to do the individual ministry. Its hard work. It disrupts our lives.
All the buildings in the world won't help us, if there aren't Christians willing to dig into the trenches.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Good try Jerome, but that is not a mandate to build a building and call it the house of God, though I'm sure that is part of the traditions that make us believe we should.
That passage is clearly speaking of how one ought to behave themselves in a gathering of believers, building or not!
That passage is clearly speaking of how one ought to behave themselves in a gathering of believers, building or not!
Right. Which is why I think if Christians agree on scriptural issues, petty traditions should not be used as a deciding factor in church membership. If someone won't join a church because they don't believe in the virgin birth, I understand. But to not come back to my church because they didn't like my clothing "in God's house" is not a scriptural reason.
Tom Butler
New Member
One other suggestion. Can we please quit calling the meeting place of the church the "sanctuary?" With the proper inflection, you can make it sound really important. SANK-chu-Air-ry. Roll that r and it really sounds good. As, in SANK-chu-Addy.
since when did being reverent in church have anything to do with dressing up or dressing down ?
doesn't being reverent mean being respectful, or having an attitude of respect ?
is it respectful for me to hawk and spit in the church restroom the way I do at home ?
even doing that at home disrespects my family who may be at the dinner table.
is it respectful for people to be talking, signalling to each other, looking around and generally being a distraction at the same time that the word of God is being preached or songs are being sung ?
I can come to church wearing my sandals for all anybody cares, and still be reverent towards the worship service, can't I ?
Or I can come to church wearing a Versace suit and pants, ties and shoes, tieclip and cufflinks, and still be irreverent towards the worship service and the God I came to worship by the way I behave, can't I ?
doesn't being reverent mean being respectful, or having an attitude of respect ?
is it respectful for me to hawk and spit in the church restroom the way I do at home ?
even doing that at home disrespects my family who may be at the dinner table.
is it respectful for people to be talking, signalling to each other, looking around and generally being a distraction at the same time that the word of God is being preached or songs are being sung ?
I can come to church wearing my sandals for all anybody cares, and still be reverent towards the worship service, can't I ?
Or I can come to church wearing a Versace suit and pants, ties and shoes, tieclip and cufflinks, and still be irreverent towards the worship service and the God I came to worship by the way I behave, can't I ?
abc, I definitely understand what you're saying and I agree with you. I understand why it hurt. Now I could be wrong here, becasue I know they mentioned the "house of God", but I think in the end it could just have something to do with the large number and availability of churches here in the south and a preference of theirs, and not necessarily a firm belief. Let me give you an example.
A little ways up north of us here there's a large Baptist church where almost all of the ladies wear hats every Sunday, no matter the weather. (and I'm sure dress up to go with it - haven't attended there but know someone who has). Now from what I understand this isn't preached from the pulpit, visitors or the few members that don't wear hats are not looked down upon or "talked to" about it, but that's just the way it is. It's a tradition for them. Someone looking for a church in that area will find numerous Baptist churches with identical doctrine. I think that doctrine and everything else being equal, those ladies who don't like or feel comfortable wearing hats and dresses every Sunday no matter what would probably lean toward joining another church nearby. But if they were looking in the San Francisco Bay Area, say, or somewhere else where Baptist churches are a little further and farther between, they would probably be fine joining there.
I don't know how or by whom the reason for their joining was communicated to you, and I'm thinking maybe it could have been done in a nicer way, but I'm wondering in the end if that's all it was: just where they'll feel more comfortable, everything else being equal between churches and their doctrine. But again, I could be wrong, and they might look at it more as a "doctrinal" issue.
Thanks, PamelaK. I hope that's all it is, I don't know for sure. This was communicated to another church member. They also complained that my husband did not preach about the KJV while they were there (2 Sundays) and that disappointed them. Well, he preaches FROM the KJV, but not ABOUT it.
They also have long hair, no make up, no tv, etc. So, I'm wondering if they are the type that elevate opinions equal with scripture. Sigh. I did like them, though, because they also homeschool and our kids got along so well. But I can't change who I am or what I believe just to accommodate other people's preferences.
Bob Alkire
New Member
I think you hit the nail on the head. I recall W.A. Criswell saying, the reason he believed there were so many churches was to meet the need of so many different types of people.
I have a friend who didn't like a church in town because of how they dressed. Women hats and dresses and men suites and ties, everything proper. He and his wife could not stand these folks, then he was befriended by a member of that church and found out, they believed liberty went many ways as far as dress went. If you wanted to dress up as they did, it was fine, it had been like that in that church for well over a 150 years, but if you didn't, you were still welcome. He found out they didn't want to change their style of dress and didn't expect you to, either.
He found out that, that church was the lease legalistic he had ever been to.
I agree with you, seems you ahd an encounter with a legalist, and left because your church isn't into legalism, good for you.
paul wassona
New Member
I dress the way I do when I got to church to show the honor dressing like that only God deserves.
In fact, I don't dress any better to go anywhere else. Does that make me a legalist?:tonofbricks: No.
What one gives the most reverence to ought to be non-other than God. Because :godisgood:
In fact, I don't dress any better to go anywhere else. Does that make me a legalist?:tonofbricks: No.
What one gives the most reverence to ought to be non-other than God. Because :godisgood:
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
So what happens when I meet God in the shower, or in my bed? I meet with God A LOT of places other than church.
paul wassona
New Member
Well, I've been on bike trips where I've showered with 50 other people on the front lawn of a church. We used a hose and wore bathing suits. Be glad we showered after biking 100 miles a day in August.
Sleeping with others? Have you ever been on a missions trip? Or a retreat? Or a bike trip? Yep - check. Sleeping with the congregation.
Of course for some, they sleep through the service so they sleep with the ENTIRE congregation.
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