Reverence in God's house

[Johnv]

You two remind me of my Catholic great aunt, she was always quick to bash somebody over the head.

Hahaha! Is everyone else envisioning a pot calling the kettle black here?? That's the funniest use of hypocrisy I've ever heard on this board!!

 

[menageriekeeper]

I've stayed pretty much out of this arguement, but I'm gonna throw in a couple cents right here:

I feel that the occasion calls for an upgrade in appearance and behavior.

Keeping in mind, that you are at liberty to do all things just the way you feel God's leadership, let me ask you a question.

Do you believe that your feelings don't "rub off" on those around you? I'm guessing that you hold the attention of the less mature Christians in your church simply because you are a mature, strong Christian, even though you may not be in a position of authority. I know folk watch my conduct though at the moment I'm not serving even in the choir. But I'm watched. What that "H" woman does, well I can make waves just by copying my child's homeschool report card!

So if I go in with the attitude that homeschooling is best, I offend people FAST. Why? Because everyone from the our district superintendent to the school board president to at least 1/4 of our public school staff and admin goes to our church! I don't go in with that attitude. Instead I acknowledge those feelings and go with the attitude that homeschooling is what is best for my individual child and cast no stones at the public school system.

So if someone goes to church every single Sunday, all dressed up in the Sunday best, don't you think that the idea that folk should dress up for church, doesn't rub off on them? No offense Debbie, but you have a strong personality. People with strong personalities have to be aware every moment of what they are projecting, even unintended. And actions speak louder than words.

My entire church projects this same idea that you hold: one should dress better for church. We are a well off church. Guess what dressing up means? OF course I'm the rebel and I have to push the bounds of stuff like this, so I show up regularly in my thrift store jeans and you know what? NOT A SINGLE PERSON ever says a word about it. No one really cares. But from the outside looking in? Totally different story. We put off the community simply because we can afford to 'dress better'. Its something we as a church have to watch out for and be vigilant about.

And I have to tell you, I'm not unsusceptable to using clothing as an excuse not to go to church myself, rebel or not. These last two years have been hard, financially and healthwise(children). In this time I gained almost 4 sizes. All the "church" clothes I owned, I outgrew! I managed to keep myself in just a few pairs of jeans with a few blouses to go with, but I'm like you, I like to wear a skirt/dress on Sunday morning. And I have none to wear. So I understand this issue from both sides.

We as church members have to be aware of the image we project.

I have more to say about the behavior comment, but I've been invited up the street for coffee, so that is where I am headed!

 

[donnA]

You did it again! You changed the meaning of what I said to suit your anger and obstinance. I never said "THEY HAVE TO DRESS UP" - I said " I feel that the occasion calls for an upgrade in appearance and behavior. Likewise, going to church calls for special dress and special behavior. Just the privilege and the opportunity and the freedom to worship in church is a very special thing indeed, not to mention the Almighty God who demands our best. " (that is cut and pasted from my message)

I don't hear anything rude or abrasive in that comment. Why do you insist upon being rude and abrasive to me? Do you NOT know how to talk nice to a fellow born-again Christian? I have been called a liar, I have been ridiculed, I have been personally attacked throughout several threads, and all because I believe that my seperation from worldliness has led to different preferences than you and a few others have been led to.

I will pray for you, that is the way I was taught to get over hurt and anger....and I will do it again and again. We have people from all walks of life in our church, we bus in the trailer park kids, and we have many other outreaches to the poor and the needy. I don't force anything on them, I teach those kids in vacation Bible School in the summertime, I play piano at church, I sing in the choir and in ensembles, I help in the baking ministry, I help clean and straighten the music library....I do whatever I can to serve the Lord. I pass out tracts whenever I have the chance, I pray for whoever needs prayer, including this great nation that is slipping farther and farther away from God's will.

Please don't personally attack me anymore.

when you say you reverence God by dressing up, you make an automatic judgement against those who can not dress up, that they automatically in your preception are not revenrencing God.
Get over it, I've been called a liar here, my family attacked, once I was called a lesbian by a legalist because my hair didn't drag the ground, grow up and stop whining.
I did not personally attack you, but you've been slinging more then a few personal attacks on these two threads. You just can't stand people who aren't legalists, who believe in the grace of God, and not opinions of men, seeking to satisfy the eyes of men instead, ignoring the heart.

 

[tinytim]

Tiny Tim and Mexdeaf, who ever said Dcorbett, I or anyone else here has said we put nicer dressed people in special seats and push the poorly dressed to the side? You two remind me of my Catholic great aunt, she was always quick to bash somebody over the head. The both of you and some others have been very irreverent towards the Lord's body known as the church. A real lack of maturity I might add. Hope to see better from you soon and will be praying for you.

Thank you, Your Most Excellent High Reverence keeper of the church building... I appreciate all the prayers I can get.

But you might want to rethink the reason I posted the passage from James.
Notice I just posted scripture...
I didn't elaborate on it...except to bold a few words...

I was going to see who was going to Yelp first.. you see, if you throw somethign into a pack of dogs, the one it hits yelps first...

Here is the reason I even posted that scripture..
That is one scripture that teaches us how to be reverent in church.
When Aaron mentioned 'exploiting the poor" in a few posts above my post, That scripture came to mind since it speaks of exploiting the poor...
I have a feeling, it was in the back of Aaron's mind as well.

I never accused ANYONE of doing what the scripture was condemning.

I just posted Scripture.. and you complained.

That means it must have stepped on your toes...

YOu know how to cure that?...

If your in church and the preacher keeps stepping on your toes.. pull them back.. if he keeps stepping on them, keep pulling them back under your seat.. pretty soon you will be on your knees... while on your knees.... repent of whatever God is convicting you of.

 

[donnA]

We put off the community simply because we can afford to 'dress better'. Its something we as a church have to watch out for and be vigilant about.

I have met so many people who will not go to church because of this, they can not dress up like the people in the church, and the people in the church by their dress and attitude about dress have in fact turned these people away from God instead of leading them to Him. their attitude tells people dress up or don't come.

We as church members have to be aware of the image we project.

sometimes the image we project is one of superiority over everyone outside the church, which turns them away. I've seen it over and over. Some people never come into contect with these types of people(the poor) and deny they exist, therefore they have no responsibility.
Seeing a lot of this on this board these days.

 

[tinytim]

But Donna, a true Calvinist would say we can't do anything to keep people from coming to God.. if God wants them, our attitudes won't matter....

(Note to self... This may have been a very stupid thing to post.. it will turn this thread into a C/A debate)

 

[preachinjesus]

So thankful church where I get to serve is a "come as you want" church.

We have people of all demographics and backgrounds dressing however they desire.

 

[windcatcher]

I have met so many people who will not go to church because of this, they can not dress up like the people in the church, and the people in the church by their dress and attitude about dress have in fact turned these people away from God instead of leading them to Him. their attitude tells people dress up or don't come.

sometimes the image we project is one of superiority over everyone outside the church, which turns them away. I've seen it over and over. Some people never come into contect with these types of people(the poor) and deny they exist, therefore they have no responsibility.
Seeing a lot of this on this board these days.

Agreed.

Reverence is honoring God. It isn't dressing to please others. It isn't judging others for how they dress. It is not watching others or purposely presenting ourselves so oddly different that we draw attention to ourselves and away from worshipping God or hearing his Word. It is an attitude towards God that each child of God carries within himself.... in his living and in his fellowship with others. Because many people think of the church as a building for worship... this is where most are concerned about 'reverence'. But because God does not dwell in a building made with hands..... he is either present in us or he is not.

 

[menageriekeeper]

But Donna, a true Calvinist would say we can't do anything to keep people from coming to God.. if God wants them, our attitudes won't matter....

Donna's a Calvinist???

:laugh:

 

[David Michael Harris]

I've heard this statement and have read it many times here on the board. Why do some Christians believe we must be formal and "reverent" in the church building? What constitutes reverence or respect and what constitutes casual?

The Bible tells us that God does not have a house made with hands, he resides in us. So why is it "reverent" to dress one way in a church building and another way at home when God is with us at both places?

Good one. :thumbsup:

 

[abcgrad94]

abcgrad94 said:

Absolutely, but we have the assembling of ourselves together at specific times during the week, with the purpose of worshipping and praising and spreading the Gospel....and those times should be special, in my humble Christian opinion.

Example: Would you go to a parent-teacher conference in a tank top and shorts? Would you hum while the teacher was telling you about your child? I never would. I feel that the occasion calls for an upgrade in appearance and behavior. Likewise, going to church calls for special dress and special behavior. Just the privilege and the opportunity and the freedom to worship in church is a very special thing indeed, not to mention the Almighty God who demands our best.

I don't have a problem with social customs and cultural expectations, as long as we recognize that's what they are, just cultural preferences. If someone feels it's "respectable" to dress up at the funeral home or whatever, because they feel it's a special occasion, that's fine. My problem is when people make those cultural/social issues into scriptural issues, when they are NOT biblically mandated. Once we start adding preferences to scripture, we've set ourselves up as the authority instead of God. (Please note, I'm not saying you are doing this, but I have seen it done and it's wrong.)

For someone not to want to worship with me because I don't dress up like they do, shows a judgmental heart on their part. As Christians, we will all be worshipping God together in heaven. It's silly and divisive to "separate" from people who don't agree with our every little preference in dress, music, hairstyle, etc.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Example: Would you go to a parent-teacher conference in a tank top and shorts? Would you hum while the teacher was telling you about your child? I never would. I feel that the occasion calls for an upgrade in appearance and behavior. Likewise, going to church calls for special dress and special behavior.

Honey, I live in Alabama. School starts in August. You betcha I've showed up to parent/teacher meetings in shorts and a tank. Usually I toss on an overblouse in case the air conditioning at the school is set to low and usually I shave my legs too, but none of that has ANYTHING to do with what I'm meeting about. School meetings are focused on my child(ren), NOT on what I am wearing!

Likewise worship should be focused on God and not my attire!

Now, lets talk about behavior:

What behavior do you change when you cross the threshold into the church building? Does one suddenly become courteous, when they were not before? Stop cursing though its part of their daily vocabulary? Maybe leave the wine bottle in car? Just what parts of daily life do you think needs to be changed for church? Maybe it should be changed it in one's daily life.

See, I believe a Christian should behave as a Child of God in every single place we inhabit. If I don't want God hearing me curse at church, why would I think it okay to do it elsewhere? If my behavior is not appropriate for church, then it likely isn't appropriate anywhere else.

Paul says let everything be done decently and in order. You don't think he meant just at church do you? Why that would give me lisence to go out act the devil during the week so long as come Sunday I suddnely clean up my act in time for church! (reminds of some other denom out there, has a C at the begining of its name) Not so, if we be Christians then lets be Christians ALL THE TIME!

 

[Johnv]

Would you go to a parent-teacher conference in a tank top and shorts?

Interesting question. The day of my son's last parent teacher conference, I was dressed in gym attire (black workout shorts, a spandex workout shirt, and sneakers socks) because I had just come from the gym. In fact, when setting up the conference, I asked the teacher if that would be okay, and she said "of course, no problem". There was nothing immodest, immoral, or unscriptural about my attire whatsoever.

 

[donnA]

But Donna, a true Calvinist would say we can't do anything to keep people from coming to God.. if God wants them, our attitudes won't matter....

(Note to self... This may have been a very stupid thing to post.. it will turn this thread into a C/A debate)

I didn't say being saved. But if your attitude about people's clothing is turning them away from church attendence, then your attitude about clothes is wrong and is not reverencing God.

 

[Steven2006]

Reading this thread I find it ironic that the people that don't like to dress up appear to be more judgmental of those that do like to dress up rather than the other way around.

It is true there is no scriptural support a person must "dress up" for church, but there is clearly no scriptural support against it also. Like everything else it is a heart issue, and I won't presume to know another persons heart. If a person feels convicted by the Holy Spirit to dress in a certain manner that is their business and they shouldn't be attacked for doing so. And this is a public forum for discussions, everyone should have the freedom to respond how they personally feel about a topic being discussed. People shouldn't be criticized for their views, and that should go for both sides of an issue.

 

[Johnv]

It is true there is no scriptural support a person must "dress up" for church, but there is clearly no scriptural support against it also.

That's true. In that respect, we should adhere to whatever the local custom of our church and community are.

 

[Steven2006]

That's true. In that respect, we should adhere to whatever the local custom of our church and community are.

Exactly, and when responding to the topic of a thread anyone should feel free to express their preference without fear of being criticized for doing so. Isn't that the point of sharing information on sites like this, to learn other people views?

 

[Johnv]

Exactly, and when responding to the topic of a thread anyone should feel free to express their preference without fear of being criticized for doing so. Isn't that the point of sharing information on sites like this, to learn other people views?

Indeed, but what I see happenning is that a few who practice "dressing up" are accusing those who do not do likewise doing the same in their church of being disrespectful to "God's house". That sort of attitude needs to be addressed and admonished.

 

[abcgrad94]

Reading this thread I find it ironic that the people that don't like to dress up appear to be more judgmental of those that do like to dress up rather than the other way around.

It is true there is no scriptural support a person must "dress up" for church, but there is clearly no scriptural support against it also. Like everything else it is a heart issue, and I won't presume to know another persons heart. If a person feels convicted by the Holy Spirit to dress in a certain manner that is their business and they shouldn't be attacked for doing so. And this is a public forum for discussions, everyone should have the freedom to respond how they personally feel about a topic being discussed. People shouldn't be criticized for their views, and that should go for both sides of an issue.

Steven, I have not attacked anyone who wants to dress up while meeting with other believers in a church building. We all have liberty in Christ. Having an opinion is fine and I don't think anyone here is disputing that fact. It's when the opinion is touted as GOD's opinion where conflict arises.

For example, my pastor once told my brother not to come back to "God's house" in shorts. He had no biblical reason for saying this, it was just his opinion but he pushed it on my brother who did not share his opinion. Guess what? My brother now attends a charismatic church. :BangHead:

A church building is just a building, that's the point of this thread. Some folks like to dress up while in the building, some folks don't, and that's absolutely fine unless someone starts judging others (either way) based on their opinion and not scripture.

 

[Steven2006]

Indeed, but what I see happening is that a few who practice "dressing up" are accusing those who do not do likewise doing the same in their church of being disrespectful to "God's house". That sort of attitude needs to be addressed and admonished.

While I do agree with your point. There has been one person that appears to have taken a lot of grief and I fail to see where she has done what you say ("accusing those who do not do")

Matter of fact very early on she seemed to try and clarify that point by saying this.

I stated that I believe FOR ME it is important to dress up for church

But evidently that wasn't good enough.