Whosoever Will

[OldRegular]

Winman

When you show where I suggest that prayer to GOD is evil [on another thread] then I will consider responding to your posts.

 

[RAdam]

No, God does not love the wicked. In fact, that's exactly what the bible says.

The love of God is everlasting. The idea of God's love ending is against the scriptures, and the idea of God allowing one He loves to go to hell is against the very character of God.

 

[Winman]

Winman

When you show where I suggest that prayer to GOD is evil [on another thread] then I will consider responding to your posts.

I did answer you and you know it. I showed your quote. But if you wish to play childish games go ahead, I can't stop you.

No, God does not love the wicked. In fact, that's exactly what the bible says.

But John 3:16 says God does love the ungodly. He loves the world which means all of mankind, not just the elect.

And I showed you where the scriptures say Jesus loved the young rich ruler who was not saved.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

 

[OldRegular]

You lie Winman!

Winman

When you show where I suggest that prayer to GOD is evil [on another thread] then I will consider responding to your posts.

Post #57 of the following:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=64153

 

[Winman]

You lie Winman!



Post #57 of the following:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=64153

You sure like to call folks liars. Post #57 in that thread shows your quote. Here it is again.

Why not ask GOD to stop all abortions since you have the POWER?

Once again, you seem to imply that if I or anyone else prays to God to stop abortions, that somehow that is usurping God's sovereingty.

Just what can you do without usurping God's sovereingty in your doctrine?

Now I know why Cals/DoGs are called "The Frozen Chosen" !!

 

[OldRegular]

You sure like to call folks liars. Post #57 in that thread shows your quote. Here it is again.

Posted by OldRegular, Taken out of Context by Winman.
Why not ask GOD to stop all abortions since you have the POWER?

Once again, you seem to imply that if I or anyone else prays to God to stop abortions, that somehow that is usurping God's sovereingty.

Just what can you do without usurping God's sovereingty in your doctrine?

Now I know why Cals/DoGs are called "The Frozen Chosen" !!

My original post #53 to place Winman's accusation in context.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=64153

from which Winman takes tha above remark out of Context.

Originally Posted by Winman
So, the only reason you pray is because God commands you to? You do not believe prayer can change things? That is truly sad, and unscriptural. Jesus taught that we can ask for things we need, and even for things we desire.

I have long thought that there was some Word of Faith heresy in your beliefs!

Jesus taught that if we abide in HIM and we pray according to HIS will:

1 John 14. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
John 15:7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
John 16:26. At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

You see if we abide in Jesus Christ and HIS word abides in us we are not going to expect that HE will answer contrary to HIS will for us. We are not going to be like the Word Faithers and expect HIM to bow and scrape at our every whim.

Originally Posted by Winman
I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't believe they can pray to God, who doesn't believe God is concerned for us, and doesn't believe prayer can change things. It certainly changed king Hezekiah's life, it changed Zacharias and Elisabeth's life.

I feel sorry for you Winman! You have the mistaken idea that you know the mind of GOD. Don't you understand that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of prophecy. Are you certain that it was not GOD's plan to extend the life of Hezekiah prior to his prayer? You have the same attitude as the Word Faithers. Why not ask GOD to create 10 million jobs in this country? Why not ask GOD to stop all abortions since you have the POWER?

If you will read above Winman I was associating some of your posts with the attitude of the Word Faith heresy. They believe thay can pull GOD's chain and get what they want. You imply this when you state

Jesus taught that we can ask for things we need, and even for things we desire.

That was the context of the statement:

Why not ask GOD to stop all abortions since you have the POWER?

To which you replied:

Originally Posted by Winman
Reading your post again this last line really hit me.

You seem to be actually suggesting that praying to God is evil.

Of all the false doctrines out there, I have never seen a doctrine as strange as this one.

So you see Winman you accused me of suggesting that praying to GOD is evil. THat is a lie! In fact it is an evil lie because it is basically accusing me of blasphemy. As you continue to post on anything regarding the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace your attitude has become increasingly bitter! You would do well to heed the following Scripture:

Acts 8:22,23.
22. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

 

[Robert Snow]

No, God does not love the wicked. In fact, that's exactly what the bible says.

The love of God is everlasting. The idea of God's love ending is against the scriptures, and the idea of God allowing one He loves to go to hell is against the very character of God.

To this question you replied:

I did answer you and you know it. I showed your quote. But if you wish to play childish games go ahead, I can't stop you.



But John 3:16 says God does love the ungodly. He loves the world which means all of mankind, not just the elect.

And I showed you where the scriptures say Jesus loved the young rich ruler who was not saved.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Then OR says:

You lie Winman!



Post #57 of the following:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=64153

Why do so many of the Calvinists here attempt to divert any thread in which an answer is given to which they cannot reply without showing the errors of Calvinism?

 

[OldRegular]

Snow

Your above post is one of total confusion. You are connecting posts that have no relationship to each other. The post by me that you quoted above had absolutely no relationship to the posts by Winman and RAdam. I started this thread and have no desire to see it derailed.

 

[Winman]

If you will read above Winman I was associating some of your posts with the attitude of the Word Faith heresy. They believe thay can pull GOD's chain and get what they want. You imply this when you state

Well, I am not familiar with those Word Faith folks, I have no idea what they believe.

But we can pray for personal needs and desires, Jesus said so.

Matt 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Jesus himself speaks of us asking for just about anything, and things we desire. I did not say that, Jesus did.

Now, I do not for one second believe God will grant an evil desire or want. You can't pray for your neighbor to fall dead because you are having an argument with him. You can't pray to win the lottery because that is a dishonest way to get money.

But if something is good, God will give that to you. If you are out of work and need a job to support your family, you can pray about that and I believe God will answer. He wants you to support your family honestly.

Hezekiah prayed for his health and God added 15 years to his life. Paul prayed for his health. God did not grant Paul's request, but the point is, Paul knew it was acceptable to pray for his health. If it was sinful to do so Paul would not have prayed like this. Paul knew scripture and God's will better than any man other than Christ himself. If Paul prayed for health, then it is not wrong to do so.

But then you make that smart remark about praying to end abortion, and that somehow God has to grant it because I have power.

This is what I meant by you making prayer to be evil. I explained it, and I am sure everybody reading here understands what I am saying.

 

[RAdam]

So does world mean all of mankind when Jesus says, "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you?" Does it mean that when John tells us "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world?" Does it mean all of mankind when children of God are contrasted with the world?

The love of God is everlasting. It never ends. To say that God loves people that are in hell, or that God loves people but would allow them to go to hell, is not only against scripture it is against the very character of God.

 

[Robert Snow]

Snow

Your above post is one of total confusion. You are connecting posts that have no relationship to each other. The post by me that you quoted above had absolutely no relationship to the posts by Winman and RAdam. I started this thread and have no desire to see it derailed.

Take it easy Regular,

You know you have no intention of doing anything except what you have done in the past. Ask a question and ignore every answer and claim they don't answer your question.

 

[Robert Snow]

So does world mean all of mankind when Jesus says, "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you?" Does it mean that when John tells us "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world?" Does it mean all of mankind when children of God are contrasted with the world?

The love of God is everlasting. It never ends. To say that God loves people that are in hell, or that God loves people but would allow them to go to hell, is not only against scripture it is against the very character of God.

Context, context, context!

 

[Jerome]

"when the Lord says "Whosoever," I cannot get out of that circle. It is a big net that seems to entangle all men in its meshes. "Whosoever." If I call upon the name of the Lord, if you call upon the name of the Lord, if the man who lies upstairs a-dying calls upon the name of the Lord, we shall be saved. What a wide word that "whosoever" is!" —Charles Spurgeon, The Whole Machinery of Salvation

 

[Winman]

So does world mean all of mankind when Jesus says, "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you?" Does it mean that when John tells us "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world?" Does it mean all of mankind when children of God are contrasted with the world?

The love of God is everlasting. It never ends. To say that God loves people that are in hell, or that God loves people but would allow them to go to hell, is not only against scripture it is against the very character of God.

Jesus told us to be like his father and love those that hate us.

Matt 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus said if we only love those who love us, how are we better than sinners? They love those who love them. He told us to be like his Father who loves his enemies and blesses both the evil and the good.

The young rich ruler went away unsaved, but Jesus loved him.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

 

[OldRegular]

But then you make that smart remark about praying to end abortion, and that somehow God has to grant it because I have power.

This is what I meant by you making prayer to be evil. I explained it, and I am sure everybody reading here understands what I am saying.

Your excuse for saying that I believed prayer is evil is totally irrational to the point of spiritual sickness.

 

[OldRegular]

Take it easy Regular,

You know you have no intention of doing anything except what you have done in the past. Ask a question and ignore every answer and claim they don't answer your question.

You are taking the same irrational path of Winman!

 

[Robert Snow]

You are taking the same irrational path of Winman!

Nope, just stating Baptistboard history.

 

[OldRegular]

Getting back to the OP noting that no response has been made to my well meant request:

When confronted with the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation those who lold the doctrines of Pelagianism, semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism, or Freewillism like to fall back to Scripture such as the following:

John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I would sincerely appreciate if those who hold the above Freewill doctrines would show how the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation is contrary to the above passages or contradicts any other passage they use to defend their beliefs!

 

[DHK]

Getting back to the OP noting that no response has been made to my well meant request:

When confronted with the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation those who lold the doctrines of Pelagianism, semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism, or Freewillism like to fall back to Scripture such as the following:

John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I would sincerely appreciate if those who hold the above Freewill doctrines would show how the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation is contrary to the above passages or contradicts any other passage they use to defend their beliefs!

We use the above Scriptures. They are in the Bible. I trust they are in yours as well. Perhaps the better question is: How does an extreme Calvinist as yourself use these Scriptures when God does all the regeneration before a person is even saved, and the "whosoever" in the verse, then becomes absolutely meaningless. I didn't know the Bible had meaningless verses.

 

[Winman]

We use the above Scriptures. They are in the Bible. I trust they are in yours as well. Perhaps the better question is: How does an extreme Calvinist as yourself use these Scriptures when God does all the regeneration before a person is even saved, and the "whosoever" in the verse, then becomes absolutely meaningless. I didn't know the Bible had meaningless verses.

It's a trick question to begin with. These verses do not contradict DoG doctrine, but it must be understood they redefine "whosoever will"

We understand whosoever will to be any man who is willing.

They understand whosoever will as those enabled to be willing.

It is the same with "whosoever believeth", non-Cals interpret this to be any man that believes, they define it as those only who are enabled to believe.

So, it's a trick question to begin with. No one is fooled.