Whosoever Will

[RAdam]

So Christ took away sin, but not really. It is finished but really. He is a savior, but not really. This is the problem with universal atonement.

 

[webdog]

So Christ took away sin, but not really. It is finished but really. He is a savior, but not really. This is the problem with universal atonement.

There is only a perceived problem. Christ took away sin. Really...John the Baptist even attested to that fact. He is Saviour. Really. Only for those of faith.

 

[RAdam]

So He died for SOME ungodly people and not for others? Then why does Romans 10:13 say that "WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved"?

Apparently we're not reading the same Bible since the one I read says that Christ died for the lost. It does NOT say that he died only for SOME of the lost. In that case, NO one could ever be sure that they are one of the saved. The best we could do is hope.

If Christ didn't die for everyone you could never know you are saved? That doesn't make sense. The bible says if you believe in Jesus Christ you are born again, you have everlasting life. Belief is the evidence, the surest evidence there is, of salvation.

The problem with your interpretation of Romans 10:13, aside from ripping it from the context, is assuming that Paul is saying that man universally has the ability and desire to call upon the name of the Lord. That is not what the bible says. The bible says that there is none that seeketh after God. The bible says that the wicked in the pride of his countenance will not seek God, that God is not in all his thoughts. The bible says let favor be showed to the wicked yet will he not learn righteousness. The bible says no man can come unto Christ except the Father draw him.

 

[RAdam]

There is only a perceived problem. Christ took away sin. Really...John the Baptist even attested to that fact. He is Saviour. Really. Only for those of faith.

Like I said, He didn't really take away sin according to your view.

The bible speaks of the cross work as that which reconciled us to God, as that which took away sin, as that which brought about justification, and as that which destroyed the works of the devil. Either it did or it didn't. If it did, Jesus is a savior that took away sin and saved His people. If it didn't, but rather requires my faith to make it effective, then Jesus didn't take away sin, didn't bring about justification, didn't destroy him that had the power of death, didn't save His people.

Those He was delivered for are justified and shall not come into condemnation. Those He died for, their sins are taken away.

 

[webdog]

Like I said, He didn't really take away sin according to your view.

The bible speaks of the cross work as that which reconciled us to God, as that which took away sin, as that which brought about justification, and as that which destroyed the works of the devil. Either it did or it didn't. If it did, Jesus is a savior that took away sin and saved His people. If it didn't, but rather requires my faith to make it effective, then Jesus didn't take away sin, didn't bring about justification, didn't destroy him that had the power of death, didn't save His people.

Those He was delivered for are justified and shall not come into condemnation. Those He died for, their sins are taken away.

You have much to learn about the atonement. Like the OT high priest made atonement on behalf of the entire nation of Israel (believer and unbeliever alike), Christ has done the same thing as the True High Priest. We are only reconciled to God via faith. The atonement must be applied and it is always through faith.

 

[RAdam]

Oh so when Paul said we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, he didn't really mean that? What he really meant to say was we were reconciled to God by our faith?

 

[RAdam]

By the way, find me one text in the OT that says that faith is needed to apply the atonement. Find me a text that says the OT atonement was applied to anyone in particular inside the nation of Israel.

 

[webdog]

Oh so when Paul said we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, he didn't really mean that? What he really meant to say was we were reconciled to God by our faith?

That's exactly what he meant! Without the cross there is nothing to put our faith in!

 

[webdog]

By the way, find me one text in the OT that says that faith is needed to apply the atonement. Find me a text that says the OT atonement was applied to anyone in particular inside the nation of Israel.

I hope you are joking!

 

[olegig]

I would not answer "Believe on the Apostle Paul and you will be saved as you hyper dispensationalists seem to teach!"

OldRegular, I am still waiting for your explanation of the above.

Can you show where I ever said one should believe on the apostle Paul and you will be saved???????

If not, then I feel you should either retract the above and apologize, or else the readers will know you feel free to resort to "name-calling" and will say anything in an attempt to prove your point.
IMO your lack of action in this instance speaks lowly of your credibility.
Its been over a week since I first asked for the correction and thus far the only response has been that you don't chose to reply to someone who calls you a liar.
I would point out that I did not call you a liar; but encouraged you to retract the statement so folks would not take you as such. (post 233)

from post #235 by OldRegular:
Scripture teaches "whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." but the only ones who really will take of the "water of life" are those who have been chosen by GOD before the foundation of the world, whose names have been written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, never to be removed.

OldRegular, how do you explain the above contradiction with scripture?

Revelation 13:8 (King James Version)
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 (King James Version)
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

I would point to the two passages above where it is quiet plainly stated the writing in the book of life is "from" the foundation of the world.
However in the quote from you above in blue you say "before" the foundation of the world.
How do you explain this seeming discrepancy with scripture?

Do you have any scriptural evidence of any one's name being written in the book of life before the foundation of the world?

 

[olegig]

bump because I promised OldRegular I would in the Pre-trib thread

 

[Robert Snow]

OldRegular, I am still waiting for your explanation of the above.?

[personal attack snipped

PUBLIC WARNING - use the word "heretic" about calvinism and I will personally escort you to the door.
"Heretic", as you know, is not a term allowed on the BB.]

 

[OldRegular]

He won't apologize, he is not man enough! He has a history of saying stupid things and not owing up to them when he is called on them.

Snow your response is pathetically ignorant because you have no idea what olegig's comment is about. Also anyone who would post the following OP should not talk about stupidity. Your OP shows total ignorance of Scripture!

I fear that many five point Calvinists (the ones who are hyper-Calvinists) are heretics (not all, but some) who have fooled themselves into thinking they belong to Christ.

If a person believes that they just all of a sudden recognized that they are part of the redeemed without repenting of their sins and accepting the free gift of salvation from God, I seriously doubt that they are saved at all!

Now, I'm not talking about a born again Christian who is saved and then stumbles into the doctrinal error of Calvinism. Nor am I talking about the person who is either raised in or is attending a reformed church who truly sees their need for salvation and repents and accepts Christ.