The Two-Door Gospel of John Hagee

[kyredneck]

... He believes he's accepted and blessed because he speaks well of Israel......

Here in the states there are multitudes of non-christians that believe the same thing.

 

[AnotherBaptist]

...I most certainly will continue to label such enemies of the gospel as heretics...

Tom. Respectfully. If you seriously believe that Hagee's stance towards the Jews is "another gospel" or "heresy", then please tell me what you think about this:

...the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth....their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these...should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time...[w]e are at fault in not slaying them." (edited for language)

This isn't Adolph Hitler. It's Martin Luther. Do you believe he was a heretic?

Link to Above

Calling Hagee a heretic is over-reacting. As I said in my earlier post, Paul's identification of unsaved Jews as "enemies of the gospel" lays the foundation for anti-semitism among Christians. It varies in degrees.

 

[kyredneck]

Calling Hagee a heretic is over-reacting. As I said in my earlier post, Paul's identification of unsaved Jews as "enemies of the gospel" lays the foundation for anti-semitism among Christians. It varies in degrees.

It's inevitable. The charge of anti-semitism, whether direct or subtle, will ALWAYS be brought up. That is the Zionists' (Jew or Christian) most effective tool for preventing any indepth discussion of Israel. ANY criticism of Israel, or the Jews, will eventually bring down the charge of anti-semitism........

.........and it appears to me you're subtley implying that criticism of Hagee is anti-semitic. Has it really gone that far?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Aaron posted...

"John Hagee's Christ is not Jesus, but the Jew. Any Jew will do. The Jews are his lucky rabbit's foot. He believes he's accepted and blessed because he speaks well of Israel.

Hagee is not a Christian."

Not a christian. :tonofbricks: :BangHead:

You amaze me sometimes, Aaron.

Whether the topic be evangelical teachers like Hagee, contemporary christian music, or any number of other topics, you seem to unfailingly "speak" :type: before your mind is engaged.

And the results are almost always stunning.

 

[asterisktom]

Tom. Respectfully. If you seriously believe that Hagee's stance towards the Jews is "another gospel" or "heresy", then please tell me what you think about this:



This isn't Adolph Hitler. It's Martin Luther. Do you believe he was a heretic?

Link to Above

Do you really not see the difference? As horrible, callous, and despicable as Luther's words were - and I have come across worse - it is not concerning the Gospel. What a person says about the Jews is not part of the Gospel message. What one says about Christ and faith in Him, and the way of salvation - or the hint of other ways of salvation, as JH does - is part of the Gospel message.

 

[kyredneck]

It's inevitable. The charge of anti-semitism, whether direct or subtle, will ALWAYS be brought up. That is the Zionists' (Jew or Christian) most effective tool for preventing any indepth discussion of Israel. ANY criticism of Israel, or the Jews, will eventually bring down the charge of anti-semitism........

What You Can't Say
http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

“Do you have any opinions that you would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your peers?

If the answer is no, you might want to stop and think about that. If everything you believe is something you're supposed to believe, could that possibly be a coincidence? Odds are it isn't. Odds are you just think whatever you're told.”

“To launch a taboo, a group has to be poised halfway between weakness and power. A confident group doesn't need taboos to protect it. It's not considered improper to make disparaging remarks about Americans, or the English. And yet a group has to be powerful enough to enforce a taboo.......”

“I suspect the biggest source of moral taboos will turn out to be power struggles in which one side only barely has the upper hand. That's where you'll find a group powerful enough to enforce taboos, but weak enough to need them.”

.....and, we should all be alarmed at the idea of 'hate speech' laws to enforce taboos.

 

[AnotherBaptist]

Do you really not see the difference? As horrible, callous, and despicable as Luther's words were - and I have come across worse - it is not concerning the Gospel. What a person says about the Jews is not part of the Gospel message. What one says about Christ and faith in Him, and the way of salvation - or the hint of other ways of salvation, as JH does - is part of the Gospel message.

Again, you missed my point. There was NO Gospel for the Jews in Luther's eyes. His position was FAR worse than you say Hagee's is. One of the remarks which you posted was obviously Hagee describing the faithful (which Hagee related to the Torah) Remnant which gets Saved when Jesus Returns. Yet you described it as another Gospel. It isn't. The same Savior which Saved you and me will Save them.

Anyone can turn anyone else's words into heresy. Unlike you, I've never been one to throw the word around. If I am not permitted to judge someone's eternal state by just looking at them, then I'll also let God judge another Christian's words, just as He said He will. I won't defend what Hagee says because I didn't say it. But a heretic?

 

[asterisktom]

Again, you missed my point. There was NO Gospel for the Jews in Luther's eyes. His position was FAR worse than you say Hagee's is.

It is irrelevant - for this discussion - what was in Luther's eyes, in his mind, in his heart. These are all beyond the scope of judgment. Rather it is his (and Hagee's) words that is the basis for my word "heresy". And, yes, I do regret that I used the word "heretic". Let me change that to "heresy". That puts the focus on the teaching and not the man.

BTW, calling a man a heretic - something I have rarely done - does not consign him to hell in my judgment. Scriptural admonition is to warn such a person once or twice. The charitable assumption is the hope for repentance. That is mine for Hagee.

But what he preaches right now is heresy.

One of the remarks which you posted was obviously Hagee describing the faithful (which Hagee related to the Torah) Remnant which gets Saved when Jesus Returns. Yet you described it as another Gospel. It isn't. The same Savior which Saved you and me will Save them.

You have no scripture for this.
I quoted scripture against this.
You haven't responded to that scripture.

Anyone can turn anyone else's words into heresy. Unlike you, I've never been one to throw the word around.

Unadvisedly using the word on one occasion does not constitute "throwing around". I was careless on this occasion, I admit. Apparently you are more careful and circumspect. You will get your reward.

If I am not permitted to judge someone's eternal state by just looking at them, then I'll also let God judge another Christian's words, just as He said He will. I won't defend what Hagee says because I didn't say it. But a heretic?

Ah, but you are defending what he says. And, yes, you are - and I am - not only permitted, but required to judge the words (teaching) of Christian teachers. I can already think of about 5 passages that warrant this. Shall I post them? There are two types of judging, one is required for us to exercise, the other is not.

 

[OldRegular]

Again, you missed my point. There was NO Gospel for the Jews in L One of the remarks which you posted was obviously Hagee describing the faithful (which Hagee related to the Torah) Remnant which gets Saved when Jesus Returns.

When Jesus Christ returns there will be no chance for redemption only Judgment at the Great White Throne!

 

[AnotherBaptist]

When Jesus Christ returns there will be no chance for redemption only Judgment at the Great White Throne!

We are close to agreeing. Once Jesus has returned, you are right. Everyone who has ever been Saved will be on the earth and all that remains in regards to resurrection or judgment is the GWT.

 

[AnotherBaptist]

...Ah, but you are defending what he says. And, yes, you are

I'm new here, but one thing I have learned about you Tom is that you will believe what you want, even if it means assuming things about others. I am no fan of Hagee's.

- and I am - not only permitted, but required to judge the words (teaching) of Christian teachers. I can already think of about 5 passages that warrant this. Shall I post them? There are two types of judging, one is required for us to exercise, the other is not.

You're welcome to post whatever Scripture you want. I'm sure I have heard of them, wherever they may be in the Bible.

 

[webdog]

John Hagee's Christ is not Jesus, but the Jew. Any Jew will do. The Jews are his lucky rabbit's foot. He believes he's accepted and blessed because he speaks well of Israel.

Hagee is not a Christian.

Does that mean your Christ is yourself, since you are apparently a god that can know the heart of others?