Can God change his mind?

[OldRegular]

Wad GOD joking when HE said the following?

Malachi 3:6. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

just Curious!

 

[webdog]

Wad GOD joking when HE said the following?

Malachi 3:6. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

just Curious!

No, He just understands Scripture in context.

Was He joking with Hezekiah? That's one sick joke!

 

[RAdam]

I always love Acts 15:18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

God has never changed. He didn't change in Exodus 32. He didn't change with Hezekiah. He didn't change with Ninevah. He knew exactly what He was going to go in each case before He spread the starry sky.

 

[webdog]

I always love Acts 15:18 - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

God has never changed. He didn't change in Exodus 32. He didn't change with Hezekiah. He didn't change with Ninevah. He knew exactly what He was going to go in each case before He spread the starry sky.

That sounds spiritual, but how do you reconcile that with something God had decreed (get your house in order, you will not live), and that did not occur?

Of course God doesn't change in regards to who He is, but that says nothing of whether He changes His mind. Scripture is clear in many places He does.

 

[RAdam]

God knew all of His actions before the world began. It's as simple as that. He knew what you and I would do, and knew what He would do.

 

[webdog]

God knew all of His actions before the world began. It's as simple as that. He knew what you and I would do, and knew what He would do.

I agree...and that is the mystery of an infinite God dealing with His finite creation within time....but it cannot be dismissed that Scripture alludes to God changing His mind and will based on prayer and our requests.

 

[RAdam]

But God knew you and I would pray and thus knew His action.

 

[webdog]

But God knew you and I would pray and thus knew His action.

This is where we part ways. I will not confine God's actions to my human understanding. You still have the problem if He knew Hezekiah was going to live another 15 years, He would have lied in telling him to get his house in order, that he would not live through the illness. My view does not have that problem, as I believe He told the truth that Hezekiah was going to die, and granted him another 15 years AFTER sovereignly responding to his prayer.

 

[OldRegular]

I will not confine God's actions to my human understanding.

Very wise of you webdog. And I don't mean that in a snotty manner!

 

[Andy T.]

Good article by Piper on this issue. He deals with the Hezekiah account - see observation #6, in particular.

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...8_Answering_Greg_Boyds_Openness_of_God_Texts/

 

[zrs6v4]

Yes or no? Why?

No, then after No comes yes

here is what I believe:

God shows that He doesn't change His mind in that all He purposes He brings to pass. He is immutable

But within His sovereign decrees He decrees to change His mind.

IOW- when He changes His mind it is because He planned to change His mind from eternity past.

 

[Marcia]

Let's look at Hezekiah. God told him flat out "get your house in order, you are not going to live". Was God omniscient at that point? Hezekiah fell on his face in prayer. Was God omniscient at that point? God told Hezekiah "I heard your prayer and you will live 15 more years". Was God omniscient at that point? If you answered "yes" to all three, your theory crumbles. Was God kidding Hezekiah when He told him initially he was not going to live, or even worse, did He lie to him? It would have to be the case using your understanding.

This issue is addressed in many of the links I posted.

I think Piper covers it well. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Let me ask you this:
Did God know or not know that Hezekiah would repent? If He did know this, then how can you say that prayer changes God? God knew he would extend Hezekiah's life before Hezekiah was even born. So how did Hezekiah change God's mind?

By saying God changes his mind, you have as many problems, if not more, than those of us who say God doesn't.

 

[Marcia]

That sounds spiritual, but how do you reconcile that with something God had decreed (get your house in order, you will not live), and that did not occur?

Of course God doesn't change in regards to who He is, but that says nothing of whether He changes His mind. Scripture is clear in many places He does.

I think a mistake here is assuming that God telling H. to get his house in order is a decree.

If God says "Get your house in order; you will not live" and you know you need to repent, might that not get you to repent?

I've told my son, "Your room is messy, you can't go to the movies." Then my son says, "If I clean my room, can I go to the movies?" So he does and I let him go. Have I lied? No.

 

[RAdam]

This issue is addressed in many of the links I posted.

I think Piper covers it well. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Let me ask you this:
Did God know or not know that Hezekiah would repent? If He did know this, then how can you say that prayer changes God? God knew he would extend Hezekiah's life before Hezekiah was even born. So how did Hezekiah change God's mind?

By saying God changes his mind, you have as many problems, if not more, than those of us who say God doesn't.

Exactly. God didn't change His mind. He knew from the foundation of the world what He would do concerning Hezekiah.

 

[RAdam]

This is where we part ways. I will not confine God's actions to my human understanding. You still have the problem if He knew Hezekiah was going to live another 15 years, He would have lied in telling him to get his house in order, that he would not live through the illness. My view does not have that problem, as I believe He told the truth that Hezekiah was going to die, and granted him another 15 years AFTER sovereignly responding to his prayer.

Did He know Hezekiah would pray as he did?

 

[webdog]

Did God know or not know that Hezekiah would repent? If He did know this, then how can you say that prayer changes God? God knew he would extend Hezekiah's life before Hezekiah was even born. So how did Hezekiah change God's mind?

Do we know every facet on how God deals with His creation within the scope of time? No. Christ was fully God, yet when in time we know of at least one thing He did not know (when His second coming were to occur). Fact is...we don't know, and if we claim to, we are wrong.

Piper did more of the same old, same old philosophizing using Scripture. It's still a theory, however.

 

[webdog]

I think a mistake here is assuming that God telling H. to get his house in order is a decree.

If God says "Get your house in order; you will not live" and you know you need to repent, might that not get you to repent?

I've told my son, "Your room is messy, you can't go to the movies." Then my son says, "If I clean my room, can I go to the movies?" So he does and I let him go. Have I lied? No.

Pure speculation. There is nothing in the texts in question to think they were empty threats, and even if they were, if you are going to hold to the notion He had no intention of doing that since He knew the outcome, it was not the truth.

 

[RAdam]

Do we know every facet on how God deals with His creation within the scope of time? No. Christ was fully God, yet when in time we know of at least one thing He did not know (when His second coming were to occur). Fact is...we don't know, and if we claim to, we are wrong.

Piper did more of the same old, same old philosophizing using Scripture. It's still a theory, however.

Christ as man did not know the time of His second coming, as God He did.

There is a mystery to godliness, but some things God has spelled out in plain language in scripture. Two of these things are the omniscience of God and the immutability of God. To say we can't understand these basic elements of God is to say we can't understand anything about God.

 

[Andy T.]

Webdog,

Do you think when God said to Hez. "he would die and not live" there was an implicit exception in that statement - i.e., if Hez. prays and seeks God's favor then he will not die and live? If you don't believe there was that implicit exception, then do you believe that God made a wrong prediction about what would happen to Hez.?

 

[MB]

Hi Saggy woman;
I believe God can and does what He wants to do. If that includes changing His mind, so be it. God is our judge and if a judge cannot change His mind, then He would have in my opinion lost His ability to reason whether or not who He judges is guilty or innocent. In order to reason we have to be able to change our minds. A judge or a jury is in a process of being swayed one way or the other several times during a trial. If His mind was already made up before the trial He would be prejudicial.
MB