Oh Lord, Is It I?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Possibly you can share with us the import of those words from your perspective and explain to us how such definitions might free your ideas from the contradiction I point out.

 

[Aaron]

What contradiction? A believer can have doubts. That means no assurance. There are many reasons for doubts, among the most common: weak faith and unconfessed sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Aaron: A believer can have doubts. That means no assurance.

HP: If one has ‘no assurance’ then they cannot know if in fact they are of the redeemed in the first place. You might say they were a believer, or they want to be a believer, or that they might in fact become a believer, or that they might be grafted back in as a believer, but there is no such thing as a believer without an assurance that he is one.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, and if one has no assurance he has no saving faith.

 

[Aaron]

HP: If one has ‘no assurance’ then they cannot know if in fact they are of the redeemed in the first place. You might say they were a believer, or they want to be a believer, or that they might in fact become a believer, or that they might be grafted back in as a believer, but there is no such thing as a believer without an assurance that he is one.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, and if one has no assurance he has no saving faith.

That's not true.

The evidence of saving faith is not the absence of doubt and sin, but in how one responds to doubt and sin. The faithless one will give up or despair. The faithful one will continue to pray and ask until the issue is settled.

The faithless one says, "I'm going to eat and drink, for tomorrow I die." The faithful one says, "If I perish, I perish. But I will perish here at the feet of Christ seeking peace and righteousness."

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Aaron: The faithful one says, "If I perish, I perish. But I will perish here at the feet of Christ seeking peace and righteousness."

HP: One with un-confessed sins not repented of is NOT seeking peace and righteousness at the feet of Christ. The only way one can be said to be seeking peace and righteousness is IF they are in earnest sincerely repenting.


Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[Trotter]

One with un-confessed sins not repented of is NOT seeking peace and righteousness at the feet of Christ. The only way one can be said to be seeking peace and righteousness is IF they are in earnest sincerely repenting.

So, basically, if one sins and dies before repenting of that sin they are lost and Hell bound? It must be hard to be the judge of the whole world... oh, wait, that's supposed to God's job.

A Christian can sin, either knowingly or unknowingly, and still remain saved. Continuous, ongoing sin is a sign of someone only giving lip service to Christ, but a true Christian can regard iniquity in their heart and still remain a Christian. Unless you think a man can spit in God's eye and remove himself from God's hand... and if you do you are looking to something other than the God of the bible.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Trotter, much banging of the head doth tend to make understanding hard to come by.

 

[Trotter]

Trotter, much banging of the head doth tend to make understanding hard to come by.

Cute.

I have complete understanding about grace and salvation by it, as well as the position of the redeemed within salvation. You, on the other hand, seem to be rather confused on the matter.

You list your denomination as "Christian", but I am unclear if you mean the actual denomination, or that you are merely a believer. There are only two Christian denomination churches around where I live, and the only knowledge I have of that particular denom comes from a very untrustworthy source (former Christian pastor, now drunkard and four times divorced). If that is your denom, I do not know their views on these matters.

If that is not your denom, I am very glad that I have the assurance that I do. If I didn't I would be in fear for my very soul right now with the way you carry on. The God I know, the one found in the bible in both Testaments, actually loves His creation and seeks to re-establish that which was lost in Eden. This is accomplished through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ who was God in the flesh, God the Son.Those who believe in Him and what He has done are made righteous in God's sight through the blood of Christ, with His righteousness imputed to the account of the believer. This salvation by grace, or unmerited favor, is the work of God and not of man. The only conditions of this salvation is to believe and confess that one believes. Once one believes and confesses, they belong to God and God alone and no one, be it angels or demons or princes or powers or any other created thing (including themselves) can remove them from this position.

And yet you state that if a Christian dies before they repent of something that they have lost that salvation. Or of a Christian knowingly sins they have somehow wrenched themselves from the butterfingers of God are removed themselves from that eternal salvation. I just don't see it... even with the biblical gymnastics you and BobRyan are so fond of.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Sad, but you may never see it. Whatever it is in your conscience that would create a fear for your eternal well being if you were to believe as I do, now would be the time to clear it up once for all.

 

[Amy.G]

Sad, but you may never see it.

No, he doesn't see it and neither do I because it AIN'T there.


The problem is what you see. You think that you can work your way to God, but it can't be done. No matter how perfect you may think you are, when you stand beside God, you will never measure up. You will never achieve the perfection of God in this earthly flesh. That is why you need the righteousness that only comes through Christ. His righteousness is imputed to you when you believe in His death, burial and resurrection.

It is not until you die and shed the sinful flesh that you will be perfected. Until then, you will sin because it is in your nature to do so.



Paul understood this. It's a shame that you do not.


Romans 7:18-25 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Trotter]

Exactly, Amy. I have no fear "for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me." My salvation is secure and is guaranteed by God Himself; it has no bearing on me as there is no way I could earn it or keep it.

There is no reason for anyone to fear losing their salvation... or to think that they must earn it through either works or trying to keep the Mosaic Law. Even the Commandments are impossible to fully keep, no matter what so try to say to the contrary. God is His own standard and none of us can ever measure up to that standard. Through Christ we can meet that bar of standard, and only through Him.

Were I not grounded in God's word and understand these various attacks and stratagems I would be most miserable and afraid. Praise God that He removes these kinds of fears by reassuring us through His word. In this world there are many things that are temporal and will fade or fail... but God's promises are not among these vain things. He promised us eternal life that begins when we turn to Him and believe, and that eternity does not end even if we "blow it" in the weakness of our flesh. Praise God for His mercy and faithfulness!