I fear

[Skandelon]

I disagree.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I don't believe scripture is hidden like Easter eggs in the yard of men's writings. The scriptures say "all scripture" is given by inspiration of God.

As I wrote before, I believe Rev 22:18-19 argues that God's true word can be known and identified.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

God gives very serious warning here to any man who would add or take from his word. Now how in the world could any man know if words had been added or taken from God's word unless God's word could be known and identified?

You can't, it would be impossible.

I don't call scripture anything that it doesn't call itself. The scripture calls itself, as you quoted, "given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

I affirm all those things.

You also quoted Rev in which it refers to "this book" and to itself as "prophecy" (both of which I also affirm), but then from that you seem to conclude that using differing translations is equal to adding or subtracting to the "word" of God.

Is there anywhere in scripture where God refers to the scripture itself as "His Word?" Jesus is the Word and the scriptures point us to him. They are the means to the end and not the ends themselves. Scriptures, like the men who wrote them, translate them and reproduce them, are fallible. HE IS NOT. Don't attempt to equate the Creator with the created. This is the mistake the Pharisees made when they attempted to make the Law and their scriptures into their God. And they attempted to make their temples and religious buildings into sacred and holy dwelling places as if God was limited to those locations. And they attempted to make certain people as more spiritual and worthy of God's knowledge than the rest. All examples of people elevating the created thing over or equal to the Creator.

 

[saturneptune]

Much of what I have read seems to say that, yes, 5-point Calvinist are Hyper-Calvinist. However, only a specific person knows whether or not they fall into this category. I cannot judge individuals as to what is in their hearts and minds.

It is amazing you can be so adamant against doctrine that you do not even know the definition. A three, four, or five point Calvinist, as you call them, believes very strongly in missions and evangelism. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. That is part of the Bible you read. Since we do not know, on the Calvinist side, who is predestined before the foundation of the world, to election, then it is our job, our main job on this earth, to tell others the Good News. This is the exact same job that those on the choice or free will side do. It is also their main reason for being here on this earth.

If we spent as much time telling others about Jesus as we do arguing about free will and Calvinism, maybe this world would be a much better place. As flawed humans, that is our concern, spreading the Gospel. Whether or not election is by predestination or choice is God's business, and all the debate in the world is not going to change a thing.

Another amazing fact to consider is that anyone would think a hyper-Calvinist and Calvinist have anything in common, since they are not interested in missions or evangelism. In their view, election makes spreading the Gospel unnecessary. You lump Calvinists with hypers, yet have this big gap between free will and Calvinism. That is totally warped. It reminds me of the political experts in the politics section that create this big gap between Democrats and Republicans, when in fact, they are the exact same, opposing Constitutional government.

 

[kyredneck]

.....Another amazing fact to consider is that anyone would think a hyper-Calvinist and Calvinist have anything in common, since they are not interested in missions or evangelism.

Is that all it requires to obtain that label of 'hyper-Calvinist'? To not take part in organized mission societies? So that's why the insinuations of Primitive Baptists as 'hyper-Calvinists'. Wow. Now I get it. I honestly didn't realize that until now. Dumb me......

In their view, election makes spreading the Gospel unnecessary......

If you're alluding to PBs, you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea what those 'hyper-Calvinists' do on their own, in their own way, to further the Gospel. The preaching of the Gospel happens to be the centerpiece of their practice.

 

[saturneptune]

Is that all it requires to obtain that label of 'hyper-Calvinist'? To not take part in organized mission societies? So that's why the insinuations of Primitive Baptists as 'hyper-Calvinists'. Wow. Now I get it. I honestly didn't realize that until now. Dumb me......



If you're alluding to PBs, you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea what those 'hyper-Calvinists' do on their own, in their own way, to further the Gospel. The preaching of the Gospel happens to be the centerpiece of their practice.

If is about as accurate as your post gets. I was not alluding to any group, except what I said, hypers. I do not know the doctrine of nor do I care what PBs believe. If preaching the Gospel is the center piece of their doctrine, then I was not talking about them, which if you read the post, you would know.

And yes, I do know what hyper Calvinists do on their own, which is not much. You are the one that interjected the denomination. In Western Kentucky, they are an insignificant number.

I must be somewhere near the truth, as extremists on either side do not like my posts. Oh well, another night of lost sleep.

 

[olegig]

If you're alluding to PBs, you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea what those 'hyper-Calvinists' do on their own, in their own way, to further the Gospel. The preaching of the Gospel happens to be the centerpiece of their practice.

I know of one that sends no money to missions in an organized fashion; but they are out in the worst parts of the city every Thurs evening street preaching.

I suppose one man's "hyper" is another's treasure. But it is still true that all things work together for the good of the Lord.

 

[Robert Snow]

It is amazing you can be so adamant against doctrine that you do not even know the definition.

If you talk to four Calvinists, you are likely to come up with five definitions of exactly what Calvinists believe. That is why in my OP I made a distinction between the Calvinists and the Hyper-Calvinists. I did not want to assume who believes which viewpoint and did not want to accuse anyone of anything.

A three, four, or five point Calvinist, as you call them, believes very strongly in missions and evangelism.

I believe I understand the difference. Again, in my OP I used the term 5-point Calvinists. Did you even read the OP?

Another amazing fact to consider is that anyone would think a hyper-Calvinist and Calvinist have anything in common...You lump Calvinists with hypers, yet have this big gap between free will and Calvinism.

I didn't lump anyone with anyone. This apparently is going on only in your mind. For the third time, read the OP!

BTW, do you ever have anything good to say about anyone, or is everything you post to be taken in a negative light?

 

[olegig]

I must be somewhere near the truth, as extremists on either side do not like my posts. Oh well, another night of lost sleep.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

There were far more that chided Noah than went with him; but I think Noah slept well.

 

[saturneptune]

I didn't lump anyone with anyone. This apparently is going on only in your mind. For the third time, read the OP!

BTW, do you ever have anything good to say about anyone, or is everything you post to be taken in a negative light?

You are the originator of this thread based on a false premise. Negative or not, you are not going to get by with it, and as far as I am concerned, you are in the same camp with the hypers in giving warped views.

 

[Robert Snow]

You are the originator of this thread based on a false premise. Negative or not, you are not going to get by with it, and as far as I am concerned, you are in the same camp with the hypers in giving warped views.

I guess you will just ignore the fact that I made a distinction between the Calvinists and the Hyper-Calvinists.

As far as getting away with anything, evidently the problem is you are too lazy to actually read what I have written. Until you are able to do that, don't bother to respond to the subject at hand, it just makes you look foolish!

 

[saturneptune]

I fear that many five point Calvinists (the ones who are hyper-Calvinists) are heretics (not all, but some) who have fooled themselves into thinking they belong to Christ.

If a person believes that they just all of a sudden recognized that they are part of the redeemed without repenting of their sins and accepting the free gift of salvation from God, I seriously doubt that they are saved at all!

Now, I'm not talking about a born again Christian who is saved and then stumbles into the doctrinal error of Calvinism. Nor am I talking about the person who is either raised in or is attending a reformed church who truly sees their need for salvation and repents and accepts Christ.

Here is your original post. It is totally false, and without foundation. As far as looking foolish, you must be getting a reflected image. There is not one statement in your post that has a shread of truth.

 

[kyredneck]

....I must be somewhere near the truth, as extremists on either side do not like my posts. Oh well, another night of lost sleep.

Actually SN, I do like your posts. If I was out of line, my apologies. But trust me, I'm no extremist. Mainstream PBs consider the 'absoluters' as hyper-Calvinists, i.e. those that think every action that happens is predestined by God, even down to the mosquitoe that liights on you and bites you. I've never heard non-participation in mission societies as the defining standard for hyper-Calvinism.

 

[saturneptune]

Actually SN, I do like your posts. If I was out of line, my apologies. But trust me, I'm no extremist. Mainstream PBs consider the 'absoluters' as hyper-Calvinists, i.e. those that think every action that happens is predestined by God, even down to the mosquitoe that liights on you and bites you. I've never heard non-participation in mission societies as the defining standard for hyper-Calvinism.

Well, I was a little puzzled with your post, but on my part, I do not know the doctrine of Primitive Baptists. There is one church in the twelve western counties, I believe. My point was, and it was not meant to include your denomination, that hyper-Calvinists do not believe in missions, etc. I totally agree with you about the sovereignty of God, and that there is no such thing as luck, fate, coincidence, etc.

What part of Kentucky do you live in?

 

[Rippon]

If a person believes that they just all of a sudden recognized that they are part of the redeemed without repenting of their sins and accepting the free gift of salvation from God, I seriously doubt that they are saved at all!

Nor am I talking about the person who is either raised in or is attending a reformed church who truly sees their need for salvation and repents and accepts Christ.

These parts of Robert Snow's OP I agree with. So, I therefore disagree with SN's remarks directed to Mr. Snow :"It is totally false,and without foundation." SN deals in hyperbole occasionally; well, quite often actually.

 

[saturneptune]

These parts of Robert Snow's OP I agree with. So, I therefore disagree with SN's remarks directed to Mr. Snow :"It is totally false,and without foundation." SN deals in hyperbole occasionally; well, quite often actually.

That is not the quote I said was false. Again, you are not reading the posts. The only conclusion one can make about your posts is that your conviction about doctrines of sovereignty and grace are weak at best, as you seem to defend Arminians quite often.

If you would bother to read the post, you will see it was the originating post of the thread.

 

[Rippon]

That is not the quote I said was false. Again, you are not reading the posts.

If you would bother to read the post, you will see it was the originating post of the thread.

Ha ha. Boy are you ever er, ah,challenged. I quoted from Mr. Snow's OP. I quoted the parts with which I agreed. You had said that his whole OP was :.."totally false,and without foundation." It was not totally false unless you have personally redefined the word totally to mean partially.

 

[saturneptune]

Ha ha. Boy are you ever er, ah,challenged. I quoted from Mr. Snow's OP. I quoted the parts with which I agreed. You had said that his whole OP was :.."totally false,and without foundation." It was not totally false unless you have personally redefined the word totally to mean partially.

Yes, I am quite challenged to follow your train of thought. There is one post, the original, that I called false. You came up with another post. I am not going to argue wth you, as it is your right to defend Arminianism. Of course, that is your choice, you know, free will.

 

[kyredneck]

What part of Kentucky do you live in?

Eastern KY, about 50 miles due west of Lexington. The farther west you go the fewer the Primitives are. Around here the average is one Church per county; on up in the mountains there's more.

 

[saturneptune]

Eastern KY, about 50 miles due west of Lexington. The farther west you go the fewer the Primitives are. Around here the average is one Church per county; on up in the mountains there's more.

I bet that is really pretty country. I live in McCracken county outside of Paducah. Anyway, so the main concentration of churches is around Ashland and Hazard? Have you heard of Old Regular Baptists? There used to be a poster on this board from eastern Kentucky that was one.

 

[Rippon]

Yes, I am quite challenged to follow your train of thought. There is one post, the original, that I called false. You came up with another post.

R-E-A-D carefully. I had quoted from Mr.Snow's opening post. It was not another -- the very first post which started this particular thread.Do you now understand?

I am not going to argue wth you, ...

Good!

 

[kyredneck]

I bet that is really pretty country. I live in McCracken county outside of Paducah. Anyway, so the main concentration of churches is around Ashland and Hazard? Have you heard of Old Regular Baptists? There used to be a poster on this board from eastern Kentucky that was one.

Yes it's beautiful here, but I like your all's country where you're at too.

Main concentration is all through Appalachia; KY, TN, VA, WV, NC, GA, etc..

Most Old Regulars are very close to Primitives, however there's one about ten miles from here that is 4 point Arminian to the hilt; every sermon they emphasize their free will beliefs, I guess to distinguish themselves from the other Old Regulars and Primitives. But they sing acapella still.