The Bible is God's message to all or only some?

[pinoybaptist]

And I totally agree. Without the Spirit none of us would be saved. I think our disagreement comes from how each of us views God's means of salvation.

But I'm glad you're nice to me.

Why shouldn't I be ?
You haven't treated me any other way but nice since we started posting here.:thumbs:

 

[kyredneck]

Why shouldn't I be ?
You haven't treated me any other way but nice since we started posting here.:thumbs:

(.....psssst, Pinoy, it's probably because she feels sorry for you..........)

 

[Amy.G]

(.....psssst, Pinoy, it's probably because she feels sorry for you..........)

Boy are you in trouble now! :laugh:

 

[Theopolis]

Based on your posts, I assumed you were a Calvinist.

Just for the record, I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian. I personally find that both of those systems of theology have faults. In my opinion, the truth of Scripture actually lies somewhere in between either of those two theology's.

 

[Theopolis]

That is a ridiculous statement. Those who believe in the Doctrines of Grace exclude no one.

"Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines to his children - Calvin's Institutes 3:23:1

 

[Jerome]

Just for the record, I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

But are you a Baptist?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Boy are you in trouble now! :laugh:

uh, oh...:smilewinkgrin:

 

[pinoybaptist]

"Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines to his children - Calvin's Institutes 3:23:1

Well, that is Calvin's opinion.
not necessarily true.

 

[Theopolis]

If the Bible is only for believers, why do we give so many away to the unsaved?

Excellent question.

A short bit of my testimony may possible help in answering such a question. When I was yet unsaved, a co-worker of mine and I would always discuss the Bible during the course of our workday. This co-worker would continually tell me that unless I became born again, I could never see or enter the kingdom of Heaven. I would argue with him and call him a fanatic. Then one day he came to work with a new Bible, he approached me and said, I want you to have this. I did accept it from him, and stowed it away in my locker where it collected dust for some time. Our discussion on being born again continued to the point where I couldn't stand it any longer, so I told him I was going to take the Bible he gave me home, and prove from that book that he was wrong. At home I would spend time reading and re-reading John chapter 3, and none of it made any sense to me. A week went by and I continued trying to decipher the mystery about what it meant to be born again. Then one day, for whatever reason, I opened the Bible, and I got down on my knees and prayed. I pray something like this; Dear God, I am trying to understand what this born again stuff means, and I can't seem to figure it out, no matter how much I try. Dear God, a co-worker of mine keeps telling me that unless I become born again I will never be able to enter heaven. Dear God, please tell me what it all means, and whether I need to become born again. I do so much want to be in heaven with you when this life ends. So if there is something I need to know about the importance of this, dear God, would you please show me? I finished praying, and once again began reading John 3, but something was different this time. I now could understand what it was saying to me. It was as if God shined his spot-light on the verses of Scripture, the words leaped off the pages at me. I turned to Proverbs, and then to Romans. What's going on here. I can now understand those words that once remained a darkened mystery to me. I was totally amazed. To make a long story short, I became saved.
So, these days I thank that co-worker who cared enough to give me, an unsaved person a Bible.

 

[Theopolis]

But are you a Baptist?

No I am not.
I do however have many baptist friends, and on occasion attend baptist churches for special events. If you were to read my profile it would tell you which denomination I attend.

 

[kyredneck]

.......(goodbye).........

 

[Theopolis]

Well, that is Calvin's opinion.
not necessarily true.

That same concept was later penned into the Reformed WCF

The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice. - Westminister Confession of Faith

 

[pinoybaptist]

That same concept was later penned into the Reformed WCF

The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice. - Westminister Confession of Faith

And I am not reformed either.
just a primitive baptist.
besides, the charge was that those of the Doctrine of Grace are excluding anyone from salvation/redemption.
not true.
but first let me set the main principle.
salvation is finished, redemption is complete.
those who are saved and right now are caught in the vise or grip of ungodly theology or such like, have an eternal salvation secured for them by One who by trial and tribulation learned obedience to the One who sent Him, and therefore, they who call upon His Name are under obligation to learn obedience towards Him through their own trials and tribulation.

All whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life have had their sins atoned for, their redemption obtained and completed, regardless of their theological stance, politics, race, geography, chronological existence in this plane called time.

None are excluded by God on account of any of the above factors, and no one has any right to exclude anyone, by confession or anything.

 

[annsni]

The bottom line; without the Spirit, the Book is just letters on paper.

32 And they said one to another, Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?
45 Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures; Lu 24

I agree with this wholly. I've been talking to some young women on another board I'm on and one of them said that she's read the Bible 3 times through and is on her 4th time but she's a neopagan. Here's what she said:

I read it the first time to decide if I wanted to be christian or not.

I read it the second and third time for the purpose of being able to debate better with Christians. You can hardly debate an issue you have *no* knowledge of.

This fourth time is because I'm reading Sitchen and Von Danniken's work, which is about how aliens influenced early religion and the Bible is referenced on numerous occasions. It's a research project...I'm going through and looking for references that could have been early man mistaking an ET for a "god."

I also think it's an interesting look at ancient history, full of fun stories. It's like reading The Odyssey or The Illiad. I especially love Revelations, because I read a lot of post-Apocalypse type stuff.

So what is the Scriptures to her? Nothing. However, I read them and they are life giving. VERY different responses to the Scriptures. I do think that those who read and come to Christ are those who the Father is calling. Others, like this young woman, can read them over and over again and get nothing but aliens out of it.

 

[menageriekeeper]

The bottom line; without the Spirit, the Book is just letters on paper.

32 And they said one to another, Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?
45 Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures; Lu 24

Oddly enough, I find that this particular passage occured before the Holy Spirit came to us. Not to discount the importance of the Spirit mind you, nor that of Christ Himself, but the scriptures were around long before this particular event. How then did all the people before Christ came understand the scriptures?

That a Messiah would come was clearly understood even if there was some mistake as to what His coming would accomplish. We can't believe that God allowed millinea of people to die for lack of the Holy Spirit's influence? (yeah, that is a question)

Well, then, your question should be directed to the Lord. I did not give my personal opinion. I quoted Scripture, and if you feel you are offended by it, or perplexed by it, then I can go no further. I don't know if you even read the Scriptures I quoted, since many Baptists don't even bother to look up Scripture, and I don't mean that as a reflection on you, just an observation I have had for a long time.
Well here are the Scriptures:

Romans 15:4 (in context)
We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. 3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written , The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:1-11 (in context)

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant , how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased : for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted . 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written , The people sat down to eat and drink , and rose up to play . 8 Neither let us commit fornication , as some of them committed , and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted , and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye , as some of them also murmured , and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come .

Its seems that you are arguing from a vacuum. There is no doubt that we are taught that scripture is for believers. But there is nothing, not even in these passages that you quote that states that scripture is ONLY for believers.

I think it was Winman which posted scriptures that point to the opposite being the case. (somewhere around post #20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome
But are you a Baptist?

No I am not.
I do however have many baptist friends, and on occasion attend baptist churches for special events. If you were to read my profile it would tell you which denomination I attend.

Theopolis, Non-Baptists are not allowed to post in the Baptist only forums of which this one is. Pretty soon a mod is going to come and tell you to quit posting in this section of the board and if you don't desist they will ban you from the board. I appreciate the input, but had I wanted the opinions of non-Baptists I would have posted in the Other Denominations forum.

 

[kyredneck]

.... I read them and they are life giving......

Ohhhh, you're preaching to the choir.

"Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?"

I can honestly say there's nothing I've ever done or experienced in this world that has caused my heart to soar and given that joy unspeakable like the preached or written word when it comes with power. Nothing.

 

[Theopolis]

Theopolis, Non-Baptists are not allowed to post in the Baptist only forums of which this one is. Pretty soon a mod is going to come and tell you to quit posting in this section of the board and if you don't desist they will ban you from the board. I appreciate the input, but had I wanted the opinions of non-Baptists I would have posted in the Other Denominations forum.

Theologically I am a Baptist. My theological views don't differ from Baptists. I just don't currently attend a Baptist Church, although I have and may again.

 

[kyredneck]

Oddly enough, I find that this particular passage occured before the Holy Spirit came to us.

The Spirit was here as early as the 2nd verse of the Book; “.....and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters”. When Christ said, “Ye must be born again [from above]....The wind bloweth where it will.....so is every one that is born of the Spirit”, He was not implementing something new, He was revealing a mystery from of old, something that had always been. It is a mistake to confuse the 'clothing with power from on high' and the work of the Comforter, with the work of the Spirit in regeneration which was around long before Pentecost.

Not to discount the importance of the Spirit mind you, nor that of Christ Himself, but the scriptures were around long before this particular event. How then did all the people before Christ came understand the scriptures?

In all honesty, I speak the truth, I have for decades prayed the same exact short supplication of David whenever sitting to read the scriptures, “Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.” And I soooo relate with David when he says, “I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.” As I said in a prior post, in my life I've never experienced that joy and peace, that heartburn, from anything like that which comes from being taught by the Spirit, whether from the preaching or from the reading of the word. It's been my experience that when the Spirit teaches it comes in like a flood, it'll blow you away. I believe the OT saints were able to have that same experience.

That a Messiah would come was clearly understood even if there was some mistake as to what His coming would accomplish. We can't believe that God allowed millinea of people to die for lack of the Holy Spirit's influence? (yeah, that is a question)......

I don't understand the question, but I have one for you:

...I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit... Isa 57:15

Did God dwell with these folks because they were of a contrite and humble spirit, or were they of a contrite and humble spirit because God dwelt with them? You know, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

I say they were of a contrite and humble spirit because God dwelt with them.