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Eschatology Views

preachinjesus

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
olegig said:
There are more passages in the Bible dealing with the Second Coming than any other topic.
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I don't believe this is the case at all. There are other topics more talked about in the pages of the Scripture than this.

olegig said:
IMO God has only one plan and I feel it is important to discern what this one plan might be.
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Seems to me lots of people in Israel believed this about Christ, and most of them missed it when He stood before them. I think that should lead us all to humility in the pursuit of understanding God and His ways.
 
O

olegig

New Member
Tom Bryant said:
My experience has been quite the opposite. Maybe that's because we inform our people.
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I detect a bit of hostility in your words; but I don't know where it came from.
I might ask when you "inform" visitors who might be lost, do you give them the various choices in salvation of the other teachings, or do you tell them as you believe it?

preachinjesus said:
I don't believe this is the case at all. There are other topics more talked about in the pages of the Scripture than this.
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I agree there are other topics more talked about by man; but I was referring to the main topic of the Bible which is the reclaiming of creation in the Second Coming.

Seems to me lots of people in Israel believed this about Christ, and most of them missed it when He stood before them. I think that should lead us all to humility in the pursuit of understanding God and His ways.
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I bet they wish they had a teacher who stood up and flat out taught them the truth of prophecy.
But the nice thing about the rapture is that one does not have to believe it to take part in it. :love2:
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
I am not hostile to you at all. You apparently do not believe that God's People (and that is whom I am speaking about) have the spiritual maturity to understand that on some issues good people can have have differences without thinking the other is a false teacher.

There are fundamentals about which I will make certain they know a teacher is false and is heretical. But I am not about to make my pre-mill, pre-trib position a test of faith. But my people know what I believe the Bible teaches about it. They can defend our position. But they also know what other positions are.

We are not talking about the plan of salvation here.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
olegig said:
......There have been more Baptist churches split over eschatological views than over salvation views......
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??????????

You got some statistics that show that? I know of absolutely NO splits on account of eschatology; but there's been bookoo problems caused by FAMILIES within the Church, IME. (but this is clantucky too :) )
 
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olegig

New Member
kyredneck said:
??????????

You got some statistics that show that?
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No statistics in hand, sorry, somehow I knew you would ask.
Did you ever spend any time in Missouri, the "show me" state? :smilewinkgrin:
I do know that when we go to the area meetings in the 'big' city up the road that the premies set on one side and the posties on the other.

I know of absolutely NO splits on account of eschatology; but there's been bookoo problems caused by FAMILIES within the Church, IME. (but this is clantucky too :) )
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You maybe right, caliber and carpet color maybe right up thar'.
 
O

olegig

New Member
Tom Bryant said:
I am not hostile to you at all. You apparently do not believe that God's People (and that is whom I am speaking about) have the spiritual maturity to understand that on some issues good people can have have differences without thinking the other is a false teacher.

There are fundamentals about which I will make certain they know a teacher is false and is heretical. But I am not about to make my pre-mill, pre-trib position a test of faith. But my people know what I believe the Bible teaches about it. They can defend our position. But they also know what other positions are.

We are not talking about the plan of salvation here.
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I am not talking about a test of faith; but I think we are talking about a test of Biblical truth.

I feel in all areas of scripture God said what He meant and meant only one thing by what He said. Our job is to discern the true meaning.
I don't think there are some areas like salvation in which God certainly has one thing in mind; while in other areas like unfulfilled prophecy God says here are several options, just pick the one you like.

So in that respect are you teaching the other views of eschatology as other options, or as false teaching?
 
asterisktom

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Tom Bryant said:
I am preaching in a few weeks about Eschatology. I am pre-trib, pre-mill, but want to be honest about the positions of others. So I need the help of those who view it differently.

Would you describe what your view of future events in a basic, short and concise manner. I really am not looking to debate the positions but to be able to honestly state what they believe when I talk about to our church. Also, in the message I won't be attacking your positions, just telling what they are and telling our people what I believe the Bible to teach.

Thanks!
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In the last few weeks I have moved from Amill to Preterist. One of the clinchers was Matthew 16:27-28.

Just got back from Guate. Will elaborate on the above when I find where I misplaced my wits.:smilewinkgrin:
 
O

olegig

New Member
Tom Bryant said:
I am preaching in a few weeks about Eschatology. I am pre-trib, pre-mill, but want to be honest about the positions of others. So I need the help of those who view it differently.

Would you describe what your view of future events in a basic, short and concise manner. I really am not looking to debate the positions but to be able to honestly state what they believe when I talk about to our church. Also, in the message I won't be attacking your positions, just telling what they are and telling our people what I believe the Bible to teach.

Thanks!
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The March/April issue of "Israel My Glory" magazine has several good articles on the different views of Eschatology which might be helpful.

http://www.foi.org/img
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Make sure you learn each end time position before you hold to any one end time calendar.
Make sure you do not get a prophecy "sweet tooth" and forget to serve God like we are told we should in verses 74-75 here
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

80And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
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Jesus returns on the last day, after the last person is saved. Then the white throne judgement,and the eternal state
 
E

Eagle

Member
annsni said:
Tom - Just saw this this afternoon and thought it might be helpful for you. They are animations of the different views by David Murray:

http://headhearthand.posterous.com/amillennial-timeline-animation

http://headhearthand.posterous.com/postmillennial-timeline-animation

http://headhearthand.posterous.com/premillennial-timeline-animation
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I checked out this site, and as I said, previously, this is not what I believe, except very generally, which I think we all pretty much already know anyway, right? If you want to know what I believe, why, and all the ridiculously strong & consistent scriptural evidence for it, that would have to come from me.

This very general, and again as I previously stated, negatively portrayed presentation of my position -- does me no justice, and God -- very much less, if what I believe is true. Extensive research & study with me -- or of course, whomever's view you really wanted to know, would be the only way to give a "fair" representation of my view.

To "lump" me in with what is on that website simply would not serve the truth.
 
thomas15

thomas15

Well-Known Member
asterisktom said:
In the last few weeks I have moved from Amill to Preterist. One of the clinchers was Matthew 16:27-28.

Just got back from Guate. Will elaborate on the above when I find where I misplaced my wits.:smilewinkgrin:
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Funny Tom that you should mention that. I'm doing a personal private study on eschatology. I've been at it for over a year now with no end in sight. At the moment I'm studying Kim Riddlebarger A case for Amillennialism. I wrote on the flysheet Matt 25:31 which is one verse that really puts a crimp in his contention that we are in the millennium (he advocates as you may know the already/not yet theory). My verse and your verse have a simular message.

Thomas
 
D

DeafPosttrib

New Member
Tom Bryant,

You gives the three animate charts of three view mills. I'm Amill. I notice Amill animate chart of timeline shows so very clear and make sense!

By the way, there are two or three classes of premill: Pretrib, Posttrib, and Pre-wrath.

I consider, pretrib/premill is far more complex and nonsense to me. To make Christ have to be yo-yo's, three judgment days, two or three resurrection days, two new earths, and even, also two elects too.

Bible teaches us very clear that Christ shall come again one more time, there will be general resurrection and a judgment day. Then come eternality. That why I am amill.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
 
thomas15

thomas15

Well-Known Member
DeafPosttrib said:
Bible teaches us very clear that Christ shall come again one more time, there will be general resurrection and a judgment day. Then come eternality. That why I am amill.
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Fair enough. As I mentioned above, I'm reading Riddlebarger right now but I have quite an few other Amill writers in my library. So, please give me a reality check, who would you recommend to the person who desires to be well read in covanent Amill theology? I want to see if I have books that are represenative of the mainstream thought.
 
Grasshopper

Grasshopper

Active Member
Site Supporter
thomas15 said:
Funny Tom that you should mention that. I'm doing a personal private study on eschatology. I've been at it for over a year now with no end in sight. At the moment I'm studying Kim Riddlebarger A case for Amillennialism. I wrote on the flysheet Matt 25:31 which is one verse that really puts a crimp in his contention that we are in the millennium (he advocates as you may know the already/not yet theory). My verse and your verse have a simular message.

Thomas
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You might find Don Preston's revised edition of, "Like Father Like Son, On Clouds of Glory", helpful.

"In addition, this new version has extensive interaction with the amillennial paradigm, and specifically the writings of Kim Riddlebarger, widely considered to be one of the top amillennial scholars of the day".

http://www.eschatology.org/index.ph...ow-available&catid=62:announcements&Itemid=61
 
D

DeafPosttrib

New Member
Thomas,

I have a book, "A Case For Ammillennialism" by Kim Riddlebarger. It is very good and very simple to read. I already read throughout this. For everyone, I highly recommend you to order this.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
 
asterisktom

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
thomas15 said:
Funny Tom that you should mention that. I'm doing a personal private study on eschatology. I've been at it for over a year now with no end in sight. At the moment I'm studying Kim Riddlebarger A case for Amillennialism. I wrote on the flysheet Matt 25:31 which is one verse that really puts a crimp in his contention that we are in the millennium (he advocates as you may know the already/not yet theory). My verse and your verse have a simular message.

Thomas
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Yes, and there are a few other verses that are likewise irrefutable. Riddlebarger is good for showing many of the blind spots of Dispensationalism. In that book you cite - my copy is well-marked - he does an especially in-depth investigation into Daniel 9 and Matt.24 that seemed to me - at the time - to be pretty thorough.

But he just does not give those time statements proper weight. None of the Amill authors do, as far as I can tell.
 
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