You are right. I have since added more substance.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Soonness: A fact that needs to be dealt with
- Thread starter asterisktom
- Start date
You are right. I have since added more substance.
C'mon Tom don't you understand? When Jesus says :
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
He really means "them" and "they". I mean who would actually think Jesus was addressing scribes and Pharisees of His day?
See, look what these future scribes and Pharisees do to their fellow Jews:
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
This is exactly what Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 10:23. Oh wait, I guess those are also future Jews persecuting future Jews. Funny, dispies always taught me it was the AntiChrist that did all this to the jews not fellow Jews. But let's continue to get Allen's context.
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
So here again the "you" actually means "them" and "this generation" actually means "that generation".
All still future according to Allan. So wrapping up chapter 23 we have Jesus speaking about future scribes and future Pharisees in a future generation. I wonder if those to whom Jesus was speaking knew He really wasn't speaking abou them. After all, those were good ole scribes and Pharisees.
So apparently when we move into Matthew 24 Jesus again though He is speaking to His Disciples actually was speaking about future Disciples.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
The "you" is obviously some unknown people thousands of years in the future.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
I guess that never happened to Jesus' generation.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Must be a mistake, it should read "they".
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
I wonder who the "you" is????
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Yes, clearly Jesus is not speaking to His Disciples He is speaking to some future generation. Hal Lindsey said so.
C'mon Tom don't you understand? When Jesus says :
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
He really means "them" and "they". I mean who would actually think Jesus was addressing scribes and Pharisees of His day?
See, look what these future scribes and Pharisees do to their fellow Jews:
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
This is exactly what Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 10:23. Oh wait, I guess those are also future Jews persecuting future Jews. Funny, dispies always taught me it was the AntiChrist that did all this to the jews not fellow Jews. But let's continue to get Allen's context.
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
So here again the "you" actually means "them" and "this generation" actually means "that generation".
All still future according to Allan. So wrapping up chapter 23 we have Jesus speaking about future scribes and future Pharisees in a future generation. I wonder if those to whom Jesus was speaking knew He really wasn't speaking abou them. After all, those were good ole scribes and Pharisees.
So apparently when we move into Matthew 24 Jesus again though He is speaking to His Disciples actually was speaking about future Disciples.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
The "you" is obviously some unknown people thousands of years in the future.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
I guess that never happened to Jesus' generation.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Must be a mistake, it should read "they".
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
I wonder who the "you" is????
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Yes, clearly Jesus is not speaking to His Disciples He is speaking to some future generation. Hal Lindsey said so.
Good points. I am amazed at how long I just didn't take these things into consideration. Hal Lindsay did his work well, I suppose. He prejudiced me for a long time along certain lines that had been so hard to do away with.
But, yes, context, context, context. Its all there.
I think that no matter how soon it is as you interpret, it won't be sooner than this,
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
And I think that it is only like 98% done even at this moment.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
And I think that it is only like 98% done even at this moment.
You know, ignorance is the best bed for breeding inane comments like the above? I guess it is better to ask, why is it that we so often enjoy breeding comments from such a bed? Can we keep away from such sillyness and just talk? Or is that to much to ask of a fellow brother in Christ?
It doesn't take much reading to know these statements are two fold in coming true. We KNOW this because they happened in part to the 'Nation'. Not just to the pharisees and scribes that Jesus was talking to, as Grasshopper would have us believe. However notice what the disciples ask Jesus and His own answer about their fulfillment and the coming of the end (Not 70 ad.) - The entire chapter 24 of Matthew speaks of what is to come..
and then we read:
Now what are some of the things that shall happen so that we know that the end is 'near' (soon) and even at the door?
1. Many will come claiming to the Christ?
2. There will be wars and rumors of wars - IOW - their will be world wide hostility.
3. (yet here Jesus states the end isn't yet - or even close)
4. Nation will be against nation, Kindoms against kindoms.
...4a. also - famines
...4b. also - earthquakes in many places
...4c. also - diseases
Yet here Jesus states 'this is only the beginning of sorrows. (vs 8)
5. All nations will hate, and seek to torture and kill you
... 5a. Then many will fall away [from the christian faith] and betray each other and hate each other.
6. Many false prophets will rise up and decieve many
7. Sin will be rampant and thus will cause many's love (of Christ) to grow cold.
8. The gospel of the Kingdom will be preached to ALL nations -
........and THEN the end will come.
9. (vs 15)Because of the above..when you see the abomination of desolation - flee
...9a. from Judaea
...9b. If one is on the house top - do not come down
...9c. Don't go back for anything -run!
What is of MOST note here is that this abomination of desolation comes AFTER the gospel is preached in all nations - then the end will come. The end seems to be marked (as the beginning) with the abomination of desolation. Was the gospel preached to all nations by 70 ad? If not, the true abomination of desolation had not yet occured.
10. THEN shall the great tribulation begin (and as noted it will be something that had nor will never been before or since)
11. The 'days' will be shortened by God, else ALL (all mankind) would die.
12. If during 'that' time, anyone states here or there is Christ - don't believe them.
13. False christ and prophets will arise showing show great signs and miracles decieving, if possible, even the very elect.
... 13a. don't believe they have seen me is some distant or secret place.
14. Why? Because when He does "come" it will be like the lightning which illuminates the whole sky.
15. Immediately after the tribulation of those days (the above things that will transpire),
... 15a. The sun will be darkened,
... 15b. the moon will not shine,
... 15c. the stars will fall (meteor showers),
... 15d. and the power of the heavens will be shaken.
16. And THEN shall 'appear' the SIGN of the Son of Man in heaven
... 16a. ALL mankind will mourn
... 16b. ALL mankind will see Him
... 16c. as He will 'come' on the clouds with power and great glory.
17. Then He will send forth His angels with the sound of the trumpet to gather His elect from earth and heaven
18. When these things are seen, know the time is at hand (the end)
19. This generation shall not pass away till all is fulfilled.
Now if all of the above has already happened in 70 ad. then it was that generation, but if not, then the generation being spoken of is that generation which will see all of the above fulfilled. Some has been but not all. Thus if we see the rest fulfilled, then not only are we witnesses to what has happened but the rest of what is to happen and 'that generation' will be the last.
37-39 speaks of what that day/time will be like.
As to the rest of the above, I encourage you to keep the context. I have already shown in detail of just one of your verses that your view, is not only inaccurate but but seriously in error if one holds to - context.
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
So here again the "you" actually means "them" and "this generation" actually means "that generation".
All still future according to Allan. So wrapping up chapter 23 we have Jesus speaking about future scribes and future Pharisees in a future generation. I wonder if those to whom Jesus was speaking knew He really wasn't speaking abou them. After all, those were good ole scribes and Pharisees.
So apparently when we move into Matthew 24 Jesus again though He is speaking to His Disciples actually was speaking about future Disciples.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
The "you" is obviously some unknown people thousands of years in the future.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
I guess that never happened to Jesus' generation.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Must be a mistake, it should read "they".
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
I wonder who the "you" is????
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Yes, clearly Jesus is not speaking to His Disciples He is speaking to some future generation. Hal Lindsey said so.
Last edited by a moderator:
Lastly - The disciples asked Jesus when He was going to re-establish the Kingdom of Israel, which is Jesus Kindom from which He will rule and reign as the Lord God Most High.
When are you restoring your Kingdom?
That is not for you to worry about, but for my Father.
However, what you need to focus on is when the Holy Spirit endwells and empowers you, you will be my witnesses.
Paraphrased.
When are you restoring your Kingdom?
That is not for you to worry about, but for my Father.
However, what you need to focus on is when the Holy Spirit endwells and empowers you, you will be my witnesses.
This is real simple. You either believe this statement, or you don't believe it:
so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa. 55:11
First chapter of Acts right before His ascension, Christ tells THE ELEVEN (take note Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, was NOT there):
But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8
Again, speaking to THE ELEVEN, Christ plainly told them that they would be empowered and that they, THE ELEVEN, would, not maybe, but would be His witnesses unto the uttermost part of the earth. Kinda like Isa 55:11, ain't it? My word shall, not might, but shall accomplish that which I please. Well guess what happens to these Apostles in the very next chapter, Acts 2:?
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit [RECEIVED POWER].......
5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven [UTTERMOST PART OF THE EARTH].
6 .........every man heard them speaking in his own language [WITNESSES OF CHRIST].
Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia, in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God. Acts 2:9-11 [...Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.... Acts 1:8]
Sheds light on passages such as this, doesn't it?:
So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18
....or this one:
if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1:23
....or this one
Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal, but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16:25-26
Matthew 24:14:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations.......
...was fulfilled at Pentecost.
Last edited by a moderator:
....and a simple comparison of corresponding passages clearly defines what ' the abomination of desolation' was:
15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),
16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: Mt 24
14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: Mk 13
20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein. Lu 21
'The abomination of desolation' was the Roman armies.
See:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63301
Ann, you and others really, really, need to read Josephus. It's a good read, not boring at all, and you'll learn sooooooo much......... What I've posted here is just 'the tip of the iceburg'. What an 'eye opener' Josephus is.
For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith Jehovah; but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbor`s hand, and into the hand of his king; and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them. Zech 11:6
then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12:45
Concerning Matt 24:21: 'For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.'
Excerpts from Josephus, 'Wars of the Jews':
“.....I Joseph, the son of Matthias, by birth a Hebrew, a priest also, and one who at first fought against the Romans myself, and was forced to be present at what was done afterwards, [am the author of this work].....”
“WHEREAS the war which the Jews made with the Romans hath been the greatest of all those, not only that have been in our times, but, in a manner, of those that ever were heard of; both of those wherein cities have fought against cities, or nations against nations; ..........” Preface; sec.1
“.....Yet shall I suit my language to the passions I am under, as to the affairs I describe, and must be allowed to indulge some lamentations upon the miseries undergone by my own country. For that it was a seditious temper of our own that destroyed it, and that they were the tyrants among the Jews who brought the Roman power upon us, who unwillingly attacked us, and occasioned the burning of our holy temple, Titus Caesar, who destroyed it, is himself a witness, who, during the entire war, pitied the people who were kept under by the seditious, and did often voluntarily delay the taking of the city, and allowed time to the siege, in order to let the authors have opportunity for repentance. But if any one makes an unjust accusation against us, when we speak so passionately about the tyrants, or the robbers, or sorely bewail the misfortunes of our country, let him indulge my affections herein, though it be contrary to the rules for writing history; because it had so come to pass, that our city Jerusalem had arrived at a higher degree of felicity than any other city under the Roman government, and yet at last fell into the sorest of calamities again. Accordingly, it appears to me that the misfortunes of all men, from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to these of the Jews are not so considerable as they were; while the authors of them were not foreigners neither. This makes it impossible for me to contain my lamentations. But if any one be inflexible in his censures of me, let him attribute the facts themselves to the historical part, and the lamentations to the writer himself only.....” Preface, sec. 4
“....I saw the things done, or suffered in them. For I shall not conceal any of the calamities I myself endured, since I shall relate them to such as know the truth of them....” Preface, sec. 8
“....the affairs of the Jews became very tumultuous; as also how the tyrants rose up against them, and fell into dissensions among themselves.” Preface, sec. 9
“....the barbarity of the tyrants towards the people of their own nation, as well as the indulgence of the Romans in sparing foreigners; and how often Titus, out of his desire to preserve the city and the temple, invited the seditious to come to terms of accommodation....the sufferings of the people, and their calamities; how far they were afflicted by the sedition, and how far by the famine, and at length were taken. Nor shall I omit to mention the misfortunes of the deserters, nor the punishments inflicted on the captives; as also how the temple was burnt, against the consent of Caesar; and how many sacred things that had been laid up in the temple were snatched out of the fire; the destruction also of the entire city, with the signs and wonders that went before it; and the taking the tyrants captives, and the multitude of those that were made slaves, and into what different misfortunes they were every one distributed.” Preface, sec. 11
“...I have comprehended all these things in seven books, and have left no occasion for complaint or accusation to such as have been acquainted with this war; and I have written it down for the sake of those that love truth, but not for those that please themselves [with fictitious relations]. Preface, sec. 12
“It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....” Book 5, ch 10, sec. 5
“....the entire nation was now shut up by fate as in prison, and the Roman army encompassed the city when it was crowded with inhabitants. Accordingly, the multitude of those that therein perished exceeded all the destructions that either men or God ever brought upon the world; for, to speak only of what was publicly known, the Romans slew some of them, some they carried captives, and others they made a search for under ground, and when they found where they were, they broke up the ground and slew all they met with.....” Book 6, ch. 9. sec. 4
Concerning Luke 21:22; 'For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.'
“....and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness.....” Book 4, ch. 5, sec. 2
“....Wherefore I cannot but suppose that God is fled out of his sanctuary, and stands on the side of those against whom you fight....” Book 5, ch. 9, sec. 4
“...But in reality it was God who condemned the whole nation, and turned every course that was taken for their preservation to their destruction.....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 5
“.. I suppose, that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against these villains, that the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom (20) perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 6
“.... For they [the prophets] foretold that this city should be then taken when somebody shall begin the slaughter of his own countrymen. And are not both the city and the entire temple now full of the dead bodies of your countrymen? It is God, therefore, it is God himself who is bringing on this fire, to purge that city and temple by means of the Romans, (8) and is going to pluck up this city, which is full of your pollutions." Book 6, ch.2, sec. 1
“.... it was fate that decreed it so to be, which is inevitable, both as to living creatures, and as to works and places also. However, one cannot but wonder at the accuracy of this period thereto relating; for the same month and day were now observed, as I said before, wherein the holy house was burnt formerly by the Babylonians.....” Book 6, ch. 4, sec. 8
“ Now when Titus was come into this [upper] city, he admired not only some other places of strength in it, but particularly those strong towers which the tyrants in their mad conduct had relinquished; for when he saw their solid altitude, and the largeness of their several stones, and the exactness of their joints, as also how great was their breadth, and how extensive their length, he expressed himself after the manner following: "We have certainly had God for our assistant in this war, and it was no other than God who ejected the Jews out of these fortifications; for what could the hands of men or any machines do towards overthrowing these towers?........" Book 6, ch. 9, sec. 1
Excerpts from 'The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation', by Philip Mauro:
“SELF-INFLICTED SUFFERINGS
In the light, therefore, of this comparison of scripture with scripture, we think it plain that the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:14 was that unparalleled calamity, with its unspeakable sufferings, which befell the city and people in A.D. 70.
In the history of "The Wars of the Jews" by Josephus we have a detailed account, written by an eye witness, of the almost unbelievable sufferings of the Jews during the siege of Jerusalem. To this account we will refer later on; but we wish to state at this point that the distresses of those who were hemmed in by the sudden appearance of the Roman armies were peculiar in this respect, namely, that what they endured was mainly self-inflicted. That is to say, they suffered far more from cruelties and tortures inflicted upon one another, than from the common enemy outside the walls. In this strange feature of the case it was surely "a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation, even to that same time" (#Da 12:1).
What went on within the distressed city calls to mind the words of Isaiah:
"Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel (the food) of the fire. No man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand and shall be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand and not be satisfied; they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm. Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh. For all this His anger is not turned away, but His wrath is poured out still" (#Isa 9:19-21).”
“SELF-INFLICTED SUFFERINGS
In the light, therefore, of this comparison of scripture with scripture, we think it plain that the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:14 was that unparalleled calamity, with its unspeakable sufferings, which befell the city and people in A.D. 70.
In the history of "The Wars of the Jews" by Josephus we have a detailed account, written by an eye witness, of the almost unbelievable sufferings of the Jews during the siege of Jerusalem. To this account we will refer later on; but we wish to state at this point that the distresses of those who were hemmed in by the sudden appearance of the Roman armies were peculiar in this respect, namely, that what they endured was mainly self-inflicted. That is to say, they suffered far more from cruelties and tortures inflicted upon one another, than from the common enemy outside the walls. In this strange feature of the case it was surely "a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation, even to that same time" (#Da 12:1).
What went on within the distressed city calls to mind the words of Isaiah:
"Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel (the food) of the fire. No man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand and shall be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand and not be satisfied; they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm. Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh. For all this His anger is not turned away, but His wrath is poured out still" (#Isa 9:19-21).”
I agree, so it puzzles me as to why you do so much twisting it up?
If you weren't actaully being serious, I would be laughing out loud but instead I am saddened at what you have posted.
The two scripture portions (Mat 24:14 and Acts 2) are NOT refering to the same things. Note what Mat 24:14 ACTAULLY states:
This passage is specifically stating the gospel will be preached in/throughout the whole world, and that preaching in every place will be a testimony to them (those to whom the preaching has come) - THEN the end shall come.
Acts 2 is speaking about a single preaching event in which the gospel was present to many in a specific area and not the whole world of which Matthew is specific about the gospel GOING to them. The Acts passage references 'every nation under heaven' but not actaully refering to all men from all over the world but only those known nations at the time, and that by commerce. Thus your assumption falls drastically short of Matthews intent. You are trying to bring together passages to support a view that niether of passages anywhere in scripture claims has already been fulfilled. That would have been proclaimed by any or all of the apostles in their writings.
Context, please - read and keep the context. This is NOT talking about what happened in Acts 2. You are piece-mealing scripture together.
Please do some study on these, it will help you are great deal in understanding.
First, there is not one commentary that agrees with you on this. This includes many such as:
Matthew Henry, JFB, VWS (Vincent Word studies), Gill, Barnes, Clarke, the Geneva Bible notes, John MacArthur, Robertson Word Pictures, etc..
Pauls reference here is more accurately speaking of whole of the Roman empire.
Note reknowned Greek scholar A.T. Robertson:
Or Matthew Henry:
Or John MacArthur:
This is just a few but they all reference the same, that Paul was not meaning that the indian nations over in North and South America, nor in Canada, Iceland, ect... had been told but that it was speaking figuritively about not only it's universalness but also it's continuing expansion in the known [Roman]
world.
Again, same thing. This is simply stating that all men can know and understand the gospel and not just one group.
No, it wasn't. The gospel was not preached 'IN all the world' at pentacost. The gospel was preached 'IN Jerusalem'.. Keep researching though, it will come :thumbs:
Nope. Keep reading. Compare also what is to transpire with it, when it happens. While it can be viewed a picture or illistration of it, it was not truly the abomination of desolation.
I have it, I have read it, and though it does show a similarities to what is to come, it was not - the end; nor did the end come shortly thereafter.
Yes, they are referring the same thing.
You gonna laugh at Paul also?:
So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18
if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1:23
Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal, but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16:25-26
Question for you Allan:
Just what do you think that those 'Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven' in Acts 2 did when they all went back home from the day of Pentecost, after hearing and believing the gospel and being baptized with the Spirit?
You think they kept that 'lamp under the bushel'? No, they 'put it on the stand' so that 'it shned unto all that are in the house'.
It was a 'gospel bomb'.
Just what do you think that those 'Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven' in Acts 2 did when they all went back home from the day of Pentecost, after hearing and believing the gospel and being baptized with the Spirit?
You think they kept that 'lamp under the bushel'? No, they 'put it on the stand' so that 'it shned unto all that are in the house'.
It was a 'gospel bomb'.
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually Allen, both Jesus and Peter spoke of "times" which is plural, showing that at least two ages or times must take place before he returns.
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
As you noted, Jesus told Peter and the disciples it was not for them to know the times or seasons which the Father hath put in his power. Now times is plural, meaning at minimum two times or ages, but seasons could possibly mean there are four times. And notice Jesus also spoke of the gospel being preached to the uttermost part of the earth. I don't think anyone could say that had happened by 70 A.D..
And when Peter preached, he told the Jews the heavens must receive Jesus until the "times" of the restitution of all things.
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
So, Peter clearly told these Jews that Jesus would remain in heaven until at least two times or ages take place first. I personally believe this could be the church age and then the tribulation, but many disagree on this subject.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Ro 1:16
Excerpts from Acts 2 [the message to the Jews, NOT Gentiles]:
Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.....
....Save yourselves from this crooked generation. [the wrath that was to come on that generation AD 66-70]
Acts 3:
And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.......[during the wrath that was to come on that generation AD 66-70]
Romans 10, the ENTIRE context of this chapter is dealing with PHYSICAL ISRAEL; Paul plainly says:
But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.......
All I can do is suggest to all that the REAL meaning of these 'gospel has been preached in all nations' passages, apply to the Jews on earth of that day. Why? Because:
..that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:35,36
Again, the urgency of the message to the Jew is here:
....Save yourselves from this crooked generation
...every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people......
Did they not hear? Yea. God made sure that every Jew on earth was given the chance to 'hearken to that prophet' BEFORE the wrath came. I'm convinced of that. God's word did indeed accomplish exactly that which He sent it to do. All the Jews of that generation on earth heard the gospel, and were given the chance to repent and avoid the wrath and the curses of the OT that were to come on the nation of Israel.
Excerpts from Acts 2 [the message to the Jews, NOT Gentiles]:
Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.....
....Save yourselves from this crooked generation. [the wrath that was to come on that generation AD 66-70]
Acts 3:
And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.......[during the wrath that was to come on that generation AD 66-70]
Romans 10, the ENTIRE context of this chapter is dealing with PHYSICAL ISRAEL; Paul plainly says:
But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.......
All I can do is suggest to all that the REAL meaning of these 'gospel has been preached in all nations' passages, apply to the Jews on earth of that day. Why? Because:
..that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:35,36
Again, the urgency of the message to the Jew is here:
....Save yourselves from this crooked generation
...every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people......
Did they not hear? Yea. God made sure that every Jew on earth was given the chance to 'hearken to that prophet' BEFORE the wrath came. I'm convinced of that. God's word did indeed accomplish exactly that which He sent it to do. All the Jews of that generation on earth heard the gospel, and were given the chance to repent and avoid the wrath and the curses of the OT that were to come on the nation of Israel.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes Winman. It's hyperbole, apocalyptic language, whatever you want to call it; the scriptures are full of it.
Are you aware of the persecutions, pogroms, expulsions, etc. of the Jews all across Europe, Asia Minor, Asia, and Africa that came upon them AFTER AD 70?
Ever read Lev 26 or Dt 28?
Last edited by a moderator: