Opinion: The GOP's Short-Sighted Immigration Strategy

[Thinkingstuff]

An immigration bill that is similar to the bill just passed in Arizona was introduced in the South Carolina house today by state representative Eric Bedingfield of Greenville county...

If a person is suspected of being in the U-S illegally, they must provide a valid South Carolina drivers license, a valid South Carolina ID card or a valid U-S federal, state or local government issued identification..

The bill has been assigned to the House Judiciary committee..

You can read bill H.4919 by clicking on the link below

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess118_2009-2010/bills/4919.htm

I think there is an appropiate quote for this situation.

So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause

- Princess Amidala

 

[NiteShift]

This is what I suggest. Jail terms for employers who hire illegal immigrants. Military intervention in the mexican drug war. More boarder patrols, 24/7 electronic servaliance of every foot of boarder, repeal migrant worker welfare benefits, require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship (provide medical care then deportation), Jail terms for landlord knowingly renting property to illegal immigrants, Housing authority verifying housing limits in all cities, have boarder states schools identify citizenship of students attending schools, charge mexico for every illegal criminal in US prisons and then withhold that amount of funding we give mexico.

I believe all of this can be done without taking away peoples rights.

Those are all good suggestions. But seriously, this administration would never do any of those things, and if they did we would hear the same outrage as we're hearing now over police asking for proof of citizenship.

"Require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship"...
"Jail terms for landlord knowingly renting property to illegal immigrants"...

You really believe there wouldn't be the same, or even worse anger over such measures? The point is that many people don't want us to take any action, other than amnesty.

 

[poodle78]

"Require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship"...
"Jail terms for landlord knowingly renting property to illegal immigrants"...

And here you have hit the nail on the head. Make hospitals the police. Make schools the police. Make landlords the police. Make employers the police. Just don't let the police be the police.

 

[Crabtownboy]

"Require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship"...

Think of the law suits resulting from a citizen or a legal alien dying simply because they did not have their birth certificate or proof of citizenshiop with they died before such proof could be produced.

Now, where is it that Jesus said, "Let them that are illegal aliens die for they are not worthy of life."

 

[NiteShift]

Think of the law suits resulting from a citizen or a legal alien dying simply because they did not have their birth certificate or proof of citizenshiop with they died before such proof could be produced.

Now, where is it that Jesus said, "Let them that are illegal aliens die for they are not worthy of life."

Shouldn't you be addressing Thinkingstuff on this one? They were his suggestions after all.
See post #37

 

[matt wade]

Think of the law suits resulting from a citizen or a legal alien dying simply because they did not have their birth certificate or proof of citizenshiop with they died before such proof could be produced.

Now, where is it that Jesus said, "Let them that are illegal aliens die for they are not worthy of life."

Either you are intentionally being deceitful, or you have the reading comprehension of a kindergartner. Did you miss the part where Thinkingstuff wrote, "provide medical care then deportation"?? Talk about picking a choosing what you quote!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Those are all good suggestions. But seriously, this administration would never do any of those things, and if they did we would hear the same outrage as we're hearing now over police asking for proof of citizenship.

"Require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship"...
"Jail terms for landlord knowingly renting property to illegal immigrants"...

You really believe there wouldn't be the same, or even worse anger over such measures? The point is that many people don't want us to take any action, other than amnesty.

The fact is when I go to a hospital the first thing they ask of me is for my ID and insurance. Its policy to do so. They want to know they will be able to be paid. So since its already a practice and its not an infringement of my citizen rights why not just call local law enforcment when they come accross illegals? I'm not suggesting they stop providing health care but once its complete have law enforcement deport them. whats so difficult about that? It treats the illegal with respect in that they are served but it also recognizes the fact that they have broken the law. When I move into a new school district and sign my kids up for school ( I actually homeschool but anyway) the school districts ask for immunization cards, birth certficates and prior school reports. Its already in practice. When they come across and illegal immigrant just call law enforcement and have them deport them. Again these things are already in place the only difference in notifying the authorities of illegal status. So the police remain the police and the institution just continue what they are already doing save they are not purposely hidding the information from authorities.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

And here you have hit the nail on the head. Make hospitals the police. Make schools the police. Make landlords the police. Make employers the police. Just don't let the police be the police.

My suggestions are far from as you suggest. It requires hospitals, schools continue to do what they are doing because they asertain identification information anyway with the difference that they inform authorities when they come accross an illegal. So the police remain the police and the institutions are bound to decieve law enforcement as they are required to do today. Landlords are just being held reponsible. We sue landlords that are "slumlords" and subject them to fines and jail terms do we not? Whats different with enforcing the same restrictions on landlords knowingly renting to illegals? They are breaking the law?
each of the measures I suggest have a founding in what is already on the books and only suggest authority involvement when illegals are involved. None of it creates a new law limiting a citizens civil rights.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

"Require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship"...

Think of the law suits resulting from a citizen or a legal alien dying simply because they did not have their birth certificate or proof of citizenshiop with they died before such proof could be produced.

Now, where is it that Jesus said, "Let them that are illegal aliens die for they are not worthy of life."

Sorry crabtownboy they all ready do that as a part of determining payment. The only new suggestion is when they come accross an illegal they report it to the authorities. They already report gun wounds to the authorities so whats the difference. And I'm not suggesting they withhold services. But once the patient is treated they will be taken into custody by law enforcement and deported.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

"Require emergency rooms to assertain US citizenship"...

Think of the law suits resulting from a citizen or a legal alien dying simply because they did not have their birth certificate or proof of citizenshiop with they died before such proof could be produced.

Now, where is it that Jesus said, "Let them that are illegal aliens die for they are not worthy of life."

If a hospital can't determine citizenship based on the information they have they can't determine legal or illegal status either so no report is required. however, how often does that happen? They want to be paid and often attempt to assertain insurance. No one is suggesting stop service even for illegals. However, LEO can follow up on residency status after hospitalization to see about illegality. Also note you know the hospital billing office will.

 

[rbell]

Either you are intentionally being deceitful, or you have the reading comprehension of a kindergartner. Did you miss the part where Thinkingstuff wrote, "provide medical care then deportation"?? Talk about picking a choosing what you quote!

Oh, and another thing: Now that you've pointed out where Crabby's shown intellectual dishonesty, he'll avoid that subject.

You'll get a "re-drect"--or no answer at all.

 

[NiteShift]

If a hospital can't determine citizenship based on the information they have they can't determine legal or illegal status either so no report is required. however, how often does that happen? They want to be paid and often attempt to assertain insurance. No one is suggesting stop service even for illegals. However, LEO can follow up on residency status after hospitalization to see about illegality. Also note you know the hospital billing office will.

I know very little about hospital billing, but how is this any better than letting police check ID's during a routine stop, as they already do anyway? The anger would be no less among illegals and their advocates in the US. It is just as clumsy, and just as legally iffy. But I do agree that whatever legal tools are available should be used, as they have never been used effectively up to the present day.

And off-topic, I do not understand why Mexico is in the sad shape that it is. They possess large oil reserves that bring in tons of money, most of the US manufacturing has 'migrated' south, and still the Mexican government encourages people to cross the border and even prints phamplets advising on the best ways to avoid detection and arrest. They are making their problem into our problem.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Oh, and another thing: Now that you've pointed out where Crabby's shown intellectual dishonesty, he'll avoid that subject.

You'll get a "re-drect"--or no answer at all.

Not really. My point still stands. This would open a Pandora's Box of possible abuse. There will be major law suits if this happens. Also it is not a far fetched idea that if emergency rooms are to be held accountable that a right wing zealot emergency room worker would simply put the person they suspect of being illegal at the end of the line for treatment. At our local hospital the wait for many is 7 or more hours. This may already happening. How would you prove otherwise?

We already saw the system abused when the truck driver provided a commercial license but was detained anyway.

Would you be in favor of a national identification card? Most countries in the world have them and a citizen best not be caught not carrying their ID.
Or how about a micro-chip being embedded under the skin. That could have your whole life history on it for authorities to check up on you? A microchip would be hard if nor impossible to duplicate for illegal use.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I know very little about hospital billing, but how is this any better than letting police check ID's during a routine stop, as they already do anyway? The anger would be no less among illegals and their advocates in the US. It is just as clumsy, and just as legally iffy. But I do agree that whatever legal tools are available should be used, as they have never been used effectively up to the present day.

And off-topic, I do not understand why Mexico is in the sad shape that it is. They possess large oil reserves that bring in tons of money, most of the US manufacturing has 'migrated' south, and still the Mexican government encourages people to cross the border and even prints phamplets advising on the best ways to avoid detection and arrest. They are making their problem into our problem.

the difference is a Leo can stop you for any reason because they suspect illegality. Where as in the normal duties you make a determination of status. big difference. Your walking to the mall and you are hispanic in a predominately white neighborhood. A police officer seeing as this is the norm can have "legal contact" and question you and require to see your papers. Where as in a hospital they assertain medical insurance. Identification, residence for billing purposes. I'm not suggesting anything is done differently save inform authorities of illegal status.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Not really. My point still stands. This would open a Pandora's Box of possible abuse. There will be major law suits if this happens. Also it is not a far fetched idea that if emergency rooms are to be held accountable that a right wing zealot emergency room worker would simply put the person they suspect of being illegal at the end of the line for treatment. At our local hospital the wait for many is 7 or more hours. This may already happening. How would you prove otherwise?

We already saw the system abused when the truck driver provided a commercial license but was detained anyway.

Would you be in favor of a national identification card? Most countries in the world have them and a citizen best not be caught not carrying their ID.
Or how about a micro-chip being embedded under the skin. That could have your whole life history on it for authorities to check up on you? A microchip would be hard if nor impossible to duplicate for illegal use.

How? No one has suggested stopping teatment. Hospitals obtain all sorts of information as it is for billing. it can be determined from this information if a person is illegal. And its duty bound to notify authorities if a person has the qualifications of illegal status. Its up to LEO to verify. Hospitals must report gunshot wounds to authorities so whats the difference?

 

[matt wade]

Not really. My point still stands.

Yes, your point stands just as tall as it did before....which isn't very.

 

[rbell]

Would you be in favor of a national identification card? Most countries in the world have them and a citizen best not be caught not carrying their ID.
Or how about a micro-chip being embedded under the skin. That could have your whole life history on it for authorities to check up on you? A microchip would be hard if nor impossible to duplicate for illegal use.

Totally against it.

The privacy concerns, not to mention the train wrecks with all the identity thefts--would be catastrophic.

 

[Revmitchell]

Totally against it.

The privacy concerns, not to mention the train wrecks with all the identity thefts--would be catastrophic.

Not to mention we do not need to minimize the states in such a manner