A second century view of Christians as earthly citizens

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

From The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus

As citizens, they share in all things with others, and yet endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of strangers. They marry, as do all [others]; they beget children; but they do not destroy their offspring. They have a common table, but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh. They pass their days on earth, but they are citizens of heaven. They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws by their lives. They love all men, and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned; they are put to death, and restored to life. They are poor, yet make many rich; they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonoured, and yet in their very dishonour are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with honour; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they rejoice as if quickened into life; they are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred

Would we have the same testimony as our early brothers and sisters in relation to a state that was far more wicked than the worst any of us see today?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I would say yes.

 

[targus]

I would also say yes.

 

[canadyjd]

I think not.

All you have to do is listen to Christians on this board speak of killing people who attempt to take their guns, or blowing the Muslim's brains all over the walls of their caves, or dropping nuclear bombs and "let God sort it out", or torturing people for information or castrating se*ual predators and an assortment of other such language.

I dare say that many who claim the name of Christ will be just as violent as their persecutors (maybe more so) when the great persecution begins.

The only thing it will do is give the government an excuse to use even harsher measures.

Just think of David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. They killed several government agents. The government brought in tanks and burned the house down around them, killing their wives and children.

Violence begets violence.

peace to youraying:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I admire those who say 'yes.' I have been gone from 'my country' for fifteen years and I still struggle with my earthly nationalism and my heavenly citizenship. I was convicted by this quote. I long for the day when it could be said of me that - 'Every foreign land is to them as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of strangers.'

Not so much on a political note, but I am afraid that my tongue can be far to quick for it to be said of me 'they are reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with honour;'

I would have to say, for me at least, that my testimony falls far short of these Christian citizens of their earthly nation. Thank God for their example that survives 1800 years later.

 

[NiteShift]

I have been gone from 'my country' for fifteen years and I still struggle with my earthly nationalism and my heavenly citizenship.

I have never understood why Christians cannot also be patriots. Why can one not be a Christian and also a proud Englishman, or Dutchman, or American? After all the Lord has blessed us greatly and we should value what He has allowed us to possess.

 

[RAdam]

I have never understood why Christians cannot also be patriots. Why can one not be a Christian and also a proud Englishman, or Dutchman, or American? After all the Lord has blessed us greatly and we should value what He has allowed us to possess.

And again, Jeremiah 29 told the Jews to pray for the peace of the city they were carried away captive to, for in the peace of that city would they have peace. I've tried to warn the people I preach to about being too connected with the kingdom of the United States by reminded them that one day this kingdom will be no more and that they have a better country, an heavenly one. However, that being said, I too love the US and the great freedoms we've been blessed with and try to pray for it, that God would forgive us our horrible sins against Him and continue to bless us with peace, prosperity, and freedom. Patriotism is a good thing so long as we continue to look for a city which hath foundations, whose maker and builder is God.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

From The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus



Would we have the same testimony as our early brothers and sisters in relation to a state that was far more wicked than the worst any of us see today?

Absolutely!..... It is a great testimony.

 

[jaigner]

I think not.

All you have to do is listen to Christians on this board speak of killing people who attempt to take their guns, or blowing the Muslim's brains all over the walls of their caves, or dropping nuclear bombs and "let God sort it out", or torturing people for information or castrating se*ual predators and an assortment of other such language.

I dare say that many who claim the name of Christ will be just as violent as their persecutors (maybe more so) when the great persecution begins.

The only thing it will do is give the government an excuse to use even harsher measures.

Just think of David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. They killed several government agents. The government brought in tanks and burned the house down around them, killing their wives and children.

Violence begets violence.

peace to youraying:

It's unfortunate, but I agree. How people can talk of such things is unthinkable. Yet, many who claim Christ's name do just that in this very space.

Violence is not the answer.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I have never understood why Christians cannot also be patriots. Why can one not be a Christian and also a proud Englishman, or Dutchman, or American? After all the Lord has blessed us greatly and we should value what He has allowed us to possess.

That's not the point, I don't think. The point is when our political views give us cause to treat people in an un-Christlike manner, to not be compassionate, and to berate and deride our national leaders. When that happens I contend our focus is far too much on our earthly home and not enough on our heavenly one.

 

[billwald]

>I have never understood why Christians cannot also be patriots

I have never understood why anyone can feel pride in something they nothing to do with.

 

[targus]

>I have never understood why Christians cannot also be patriots<

I have never understood why anyone can feel pride in something they nothing to do with.

Well that explains a lot.

 

[Martin]

The point is when our political views give us cause to treat people in an un-Christlike manner, to not be compassionate, and to berate and deride our national leaders. When that happens I contend our focus is far too much on our earthly home and not enough on our heavenly one.

==Amen, amen, and amen! I could not have said it better. This has been a concern of mine for several years. As Christians, we should be careful to keep our priorities straight. Sadly many Christians have fallen for the political game (usually Republican). They are so blinded by politics that they don't see, or understand, that they are sinning by violating clear Scriptural commands to not malign anyone (Titus 3:1-2, etc). Political disagreements are one thing but calling people names is another thing all together.

 

[saturneptune]

I would like to think I would act like those people did. What a great testimony. My my honest answer is that I (we) are so spoiled by the "things" of this earth, that my testimony and example would be pitiful. What stands out to me in the quote the most is the testimony even after persecution. I think about today. Everyone has to even the score when someone wrongs them, even if is an accident or misunderstanding. For example, is someone cuts you off while driving, or takes a parking space you were waiting for, it usually results in a not so nice gesture or word. If we are going to battle over trivial things such as this, how would we honestly react to life and death situations in the name of the Lord. The gentle and kind spirit is gone for the most part

I also admire those who said yes. I would try my hardest, but between the obvious life style changes, and the higher standard that they had, I would be hard pressed to even approach those citizens. Without the help of the Lord, I would fail miserably.

 

[NiteShift]

have never understood why anyone can feel pride in something they nothing to do with.

What's the matter billwald, didn't your parents give you a little red wagon? My folks gave me a bicycle that I was proud of. And I tried to take care of it.

Well that explains a lot.

Yeah boy!

 

[NiteShift]

That's not the point, I don't think. The point is when our political views give us cause to treat people in an un-Christlike manner, to not be compassionate, and to berate and deride our national leaders. When that happens I contend our focus is far too much on our earthly home and not enough on our heavenly one.

Well yes, obviously a Christian has to keep the priorities straight, and we sometimes get out of bounds. But there is nothing wrong with debating (or venting) about the actions and statements of our elected leaders. Otherwise you might as well abolish this here politics forum altogether.

Which brings up another point i.e. that people in the theology forums can get just as nasty, in their own way, with those they disagree with.

 

[Dragoon68]

Beware of those who teach that Christians must be obedient to an evil government imposed over them AND yet somehow not be loyal enough to their own nation to protect, defend, and secure the government which they designed, empowered, and are accountable for.

 

[Martin]

Beware of those who teach that Christians must be obedient to an evil government imposed over them

When Paul wrote that we should "be in subjection to the governing authorities" (Rom 13:1) Nero was the leader of Rome. He was far worse than anything we know today. So we should beware of those who neglect or reject the commands of Scripture (see also 1Tim 2:1-2, Titus 3:1-2, 1Peter 2:1-17, etc).

 

[canadyjd]

Beware of those who teach that Christians must be obedient to an evil government imposed over them AND yet somehow not be loyal enough to their own nation to protect, defend, and secure the government which they designed, empowered, and are accountable for.

Let's just go ahead and name a few of "those who teach that Christians must be obedient to an evil government...." that we must "beware of".

Jesus Christ
Apostle Paul
Apostle Peter

Our citizenship is in heaven, first foremost and always.

If you believe scripture, then you must believe that all nations will go after the anti-christ and will persecute Christians. These United States of America will not be spared and it is foolish to do violence attempting to prevent something that God has already revealed in His Word will come to pass.

peace to youraying:

 

[targus]

Let's just go ahead and name a few of "those who teach that Christians must be obedient to an evil government...." that we must "beware of".

Jesus Christ
Apostle Paul
Apostle Peter

Our citizenship is in heaven, first foremost and always.

If you believe scripture, then you must believe that all nations will go after the anti-christ and will persecute Christians. These United States of America will not be spared and it is foolish to do violence attempting to prevent something that God has already revealed in His Word will come to pass.

peace to youraying:

You failed to notice his conditional use of AND.

Reread his post while attending to that condition and you will find that it says other than you believe.

Beware of those who teach that Christians must be obedient to an evil government imposed over them AND yet somehow not be loyal enough to their own nation to protect, defend, and secure the government which they designed, empowered, and are accountable for.