How does OSAS fail the Sola Scriptura Test?

[annsni]

OSAS doesn't fail any test. When I was saved, God gave me ETERNAL life--not temporary life until my next sin, which was probably that same day. God is full of live grace and mercy. When He saves someone, they STAY saved.

Amen, Jon-Marc. I learned about OSAS from Scripture. I see it so clearly there that I am secure. I am my Father's child and will never be disowned.

 

[lori4dogs]

If only Bob could remove the blurred glasses placed on him by the SDA church he could actually see the true lessons in the scriptures.

It is sad really, to see a person so devoted to studying scripture and put so much time and effort into wood, hay and stubble.

Bob, have you ever sat down and said to God, "I am setting aside all I have been indoctrinated to believe and I am asking You Lord to teach me what these scriptures really mean" ??

It takes humility to do this. You cannot go into it carrying the SDA monkey on your back. You would have to disregard all that they have forced upon you and just let the Spirit speak to you.

Isn't the truth more important to you than any loyalities to a church, or family, or friends?

Please pray about it. Many before you have humbled themselves and have found themselves departing from the SDA, JWs and Mormon churches. There is a good reason for this, you should consider why.

DHK had to leave the RCC behind. I am sure that he had friends or family that he had to grieve but chose to grieve them rather than the Holy Spirit of God.

Paul had to leave his Phariseeism behind and counted it as dung even. The SDA church just picked up what the Judiazers begun as recorded in Acts 15.

Pray about it.

As a Baptist, I did EXACTLY what you are asking Bob to do. As many, many other Baptists have done and as a result have left the Baptist church behind for the Catholic Church. Of course you will say I have been deceived. Each day I grow more in the 'faith once delivered'.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Your right lost "Baptists" join the Catholic Church, the mormons, SDA, Jehovah's witnesses while "saved" people come out of those cults and join Baptists and other evangelical churches - I Jn. 2:19

As a Baptist, I did EXACTLY what you are asking Bob to do. As many, many other Baptists have done and as a result have left the Baptist church behind for the Catholic Church. Of course you will say I have been deceived. Each day I grow more in the 'faith once delivered'.

 

[DHK]

As a Baptist, I did EXACTLY what you are asking Bob to do. As many, many other Baptists have done and as a result have left the Baptist church behind for the Catholic Church. Of course you will say I have been deceived. Each day I grow more in the 'faith once delivered'.

However there are many Catholics that are genuinely coming to the Lord, realizing what it is to have their sins forgiven once for all, knowing what it is to have eternal life once for all, and never have to worry about their salvation again. What a blessing that is.

Last week we had a Sikh profess Christ as Savior. She knew nothing about what it meant to have forgiveness of sins. But then Catholics know nothing of the same thing. My sins are forgiven: past, present and future. They are all under the blood of Christ. He paid for them all. The burden was lifted. And for her, what a relief it was; what peace she had. Only Christ can do that.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW: Your right lost "Baptists" join the Catholic Church, the mormons, SDA, Jehovah's witnesses while "saved" people come out of those cults and join Baptists and other evangelical churches - I Jn. 2:19

HP: I would suggest that you might consider enlarging your insight with a great read entitled "Out of Darkness Into Light" by Asa Mahan.:thumbs: Besides, to couple SDA with cults such as you mentioned is clearly to spout ingorance.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Your right lost "Baptists" join the Catholic Church, the mormons, SDA, Jehovah's witnesses while "saved" people come out of those cults and join Baptists and other evangelical churches - I Jn. 2:19

I might add that I have met some real born again Christians who were raised Catholic and stay within the Catholic church in order to reach their fellow Catholics for Christ.

I was door to door witnessing at the naval air station basis just outside Memphis, TN in 1980 when I knocked on a door and was greeted by a Catholic and when I began to ask him some questions he assured me that he was born again and did not believe in Catholic doctrine or dogma and in fact they were conducting a home Bible study that very moment. I asked why they remained in the Catholic church and he told me that they love Catholics as they have so much of their family and friends that are Catholic and they want to reach them for Christ and they thought they could do it better from within than without.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

If one believes their sins that they might commit in the future do not exist having already been cast into the sea of forgetfulness and that they are already forgiven before they are committed and repentance sought, they are simply deceived. Those teaching as such are teaching false doctrine and are instilling false hopes in gullible individuals.

Apart from sincere repentance, there will be no final salvation of ones soul regardless of the profession or confession. Lu 13:3 “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” “All” includes the unsaved sinner as well as the sinning professor.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I have had ex-Roman Catholics in my congregations in the past and do presently. I have asked them what they had liked about the Catholic religion. Interestingly, they liked the regal and high church ceremonial experience. It made them feel like they really went through something grande and religious. However, when asking why they left, they all gave an answer similar to Paul's in Philippians 3. They saw it blasphemed Christ and perverted the simple gospel and could not stomach it when they knew the truth of the gospel.

 

[Jedi Knight]

True believers are sealed for the day of redemption....why? Because Jesus gives eternal life and they SHALL NEVER perish. If Jesus stops to live then I would believe in fall out of Christ. I like the passage where Jesus said "because I live,you SHALL live also". Bob and HP,your teaching a "Codependant" gospel...... that's why Paul said "you have fallen from grace".

 

[Dr. Walter]

Christ died two thousand years ago and if he died for any of your sins he died for all of them as they were all future.

However, sin has its present effects upon our EXPERIENCE of salvation. Confessing our sins and seeking cleansing has nothing to do with our judicial standing before God as that has been secured by Christ once and for all.

Confessing our sins and seeking cleansing has to do with our EXPERIENTIAL condition here on earth. Sin robs us from the "joy" of salvation, from experiential peace "of" God (not with God) and other experiential blessings of salvation.

We seek cleansing of our conscience which convicts us of our sins here and now, we don't seek judicial forgiveness as that never changes.

If one believes their sins that they might commit in the future do not exist having already been cast into the sea of forgetfulness and that they are already forgiven before they are committed and repentance sought, they are simply deceived. Those teaching as such are teaching false doctrine and are instilling false hopes in gullible individuals.

Apart from sincere repentance, there will be no final salvation of ones soul regardless of the profession or confession. Lu 13:3 “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” “All” includes the unsaved sinner as well as the sinning professor.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW: Christ died two thousand years ago and if he died for any of your sins he died for all of them as they were all future.

HP: Here again we find that DW espouses the literal payment theory, a philosophical notion common among Calvinist and those leaning hard towards Calvinism. When he accepts that theory, he of necessity must also logically accept the theory of a limited atonement or confess that the blood of Christ did not and could not have been effective to atone for the sins of the lost. Such a theory makes Christ to have suffered much more than He needed to. Furthermore, if it is up to man in any way, (by man will accepting or rejecting) and if man plays any part whatsover in salvation, is this not contrary to the notion espoused by Calvinists and those leaning hard towards Calvinsim, i.e., not by the will of man which is spoken of in Scripture but misapplied by so many?

If He suffered and died for the sins of the whole world as Scripture states, and the philosophical position of a literal payment is to be accepted, there is but one conclusion. The atonement was insufficient to succour its end. Double jeopardy exists for the sins of the lost, for they will have to repay for the sins Christ is said to have already paid for.

There is a fly in the philosophical soup of the Calvinist or those leaning hard towards Calvinism.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW: Christ died two thousand years ago and if he died for any of your sins he died for all of them as they were all future.

HP: Christ certainly made the way possible for all sins to be forgiven, including forgiveness made possible for the sins of the entire world, YET all sins are NOT forgiven. There are conditions to forgiveness, one of which is repentance, and without repentance there is no forgiveness for ones personal sins. Salvation is no blanket pardon for future sins for anyone. Scripture is clear. It is sins which are PAST for which we are forgiven when we come to Christ, not future transgressions yet to be repented of.

Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[Jedi Knight]

HP: Christ certainly made the way possible for all sins to be forgiven, including forgiveness made possible for the sins of the entire world, YET all sins are NOT forgiven. There are conditions to forgiveness, one of which is repentance, and without repentance there is no forgiveness for ones personal sins. Salvation is no blanket pardon for future sins for anyone. Scripture is clear. It is sins which are PAST for which we are forgiven when we come to Christ, not future transgressions yet to be repented of.

Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

That are past...do the math! Old Testament saints who lived before the incarnation of Christ who were under the sacrifical system that could NEVER TAKE AWAY sins "thus the forbarance of God" untill the Lamb of God who TAKES AWAY the sin of the world. PAST SINS= "Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Now the NEW ....Hebrews 9:12.."He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE AND FOR ALL by his own blood, having obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION." PAST,PRESENT,FUTURE....ETERNAL REDEMPTION!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The truth of the matter is, take away the false philosophical notions the literal payment theory imbibes, and the whole system it is part and parcel to, i.e., the system of Calvinistic theology, fails. Sola Scripture is nothing more than a sophistical myth. There is not a system of theological though that does not assume, recognized as such or not, a system of philosophy. What is so ironic, is that the one system of thought that prides themselves in Sola Scripture or Sola Biblica (sp ?) , is based upon false philosophical error of men like Augustine and Calvin. One such philosophical error being that sin lies in the constitution of the flesh and not in the will.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: Two primary ways for "OSAS" once saved always saved - to fail the test of scripture.

1. Warnings given in the bible to the saints about the real danger of falling.

2. Claims in the Bible that saved people were severed from Christ - fallen from Grace.

HP: You are right on BR.:thumbs:

I still say underneath all their so called ‘biblical’ positions is a false philosophical system of thought, as much as they pound the pulpit to the contrary or sing the tune of 'Sola Scriptura.' Their false view of the atonement is a prime example of such philosophical error.

 

[Jedi Knight]

HP: You are right on BR.:thumbs:

I still say underneath all their so called ‘biblical’ positions is a false philosophical system of thought, as much as they pound the pulpit to the contrary or sing the tune of 'Sola Scriptura.' Their false view of the atonement is a prime example of such philosophical error.

Funny how you can be shown incorrect and cling to false reasoning as "Past Sins" only forgiven? You need to study Hebrews......AND if Jesus is not the literal payment for all your sins...then as Paul put it "you are yet in your sins".

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JK, your 'sola philosophical indoctrination' is sadly showing.

 

[Jedi Knight]

JK, your 'sola philosophical indoctrination' is sadly showing.

I stick to the bible.....obviously you cannot recieve it.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JK: I stick to the bible.....obviously you cannot recieve it.

HP: In reality you do no such thing. You are interpreting Scripture from a distinctive philosophical position known the world over part and parcel to Calvinism. What is sad is that you seemingly cannot recognize the source of your indoctrination. You do not know who your doctrinal fathers really are.

I suppose that is the zenith of false indoctrination; cause the subject to believe a self -serving lie, i.e., all my beliefs are “Sola Scriptura.’

 

[annsni]

JK, your 'sola philosophical indoctrination' is sadly showing.

I find that quite a rude comment. There is no "indoctrination" when considering the perseverance and preservation of the saints. It's a Biblical concept long held by many faithful leaders of the body of Christ. Why do you feel a need to be so snotty?