Sola Scriptura

This is an absurd argument because Paul has already defined "the law" as the manifestation of God's own righteousness:

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

The very same law in verses 19-20 is the very same law in verse 21 which is directly stated to be the manifestation of God's own righteousness and you cannot restrict God's own righteousness to Jews or to Mosaic Laws.

The reality is that the Mosaic law gives the most comprehensive detailed definition of GOOD WORKS in regard to the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD ever given to mankind. The Jew is the epitomy and apex of what GOOD WORKS are in relationsip to the ETERNAL MORAL RIGHTEOUS STANDARD of right and wrong found in the very character of God. Thus in denying that justification by faith is without the works of the Mosaic Law is to declare in the most comprehensive fashion that ANY and EVERY KIND OF GOOD WORKS has been EXCLUDED from justification by faith.

Furthermore, Paul makes it clear that He is not restricting this to the Jews but he is presenting Abraham as THE ROLE MODEL FOR ALL WHO BELIEVE and he was justified by faith FOURTEEN YEARS before submitting to circumcision demonstrating that justification by faith is completed WITHOUT ORDINANCES.

You simply will not accept the truth that is set forth in the clearest terms possible by the apostle Paul. Again, Paul states that the righteousness of God is manifested in the law (Rom. 3:22) and it is the same righteousnes found "without the law" in Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:22) and so to reject the righteousnes in the law is to reject both the righteousness of God and the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Remember, the Law that Jesus Christ fulfilled, was fulfilled "FOR US" and He is the end of THAT LAW for righteousness to all who believe (Rom. 10:4) and the righteousness of THAT LAW in Romans 10:4 is previously called the righteousness of God Himself in Romans 10:3 and it is the SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS rejected by the Jew in Romans 9:30-33 but received by the Gentile by faith in regard to the SAME LAW.

 

That is an absurd position on Romans 4 as Abraham is a gentile not a Jew and Abraham was justified 14 years before he was even circumcised and none were considered a Jew before circumcision. Moreover, the law is specifically addressed in Romans 4:14-15 demonstrating that "the works" in Romans 4:1-4 are those pertaining "to the flesh" not to the law of Moses as Moses didn't even come into existence until 430 years later and the law is but only ONE aspect Paul is systematically denying is inclusive in justification by faith. Romans 4:16-22 defines justifying faith as exclusive of any kind of assistance or performance on the part of Abraham but simply taking God at His promise and depending solely upon His power to perform that promise. Remember, Abraham is presented as the "Father" or role model for ALL THAT BELIEVE.

Paul has already stated in Romans 3:21-22 that the righteousness of God is revealed in "the law" as well as "the prophets" and thus "the law" in question expresses the very righteousness found in the very character of God as well in the person of Jesus Christ.

What I believe you don't see clearly is that the law given to the Jew is the most comprehensive PRACTICAL application of moral law ever given to mankind and thus the most definitive model for "GOOD WORKS" existent on planet earth and therefore to deny justification is by the "works of the law" is the most possible comprehensive denial that "good works" play any role whatsoever in justifying faith imaginable.

I agree with you that justifying faith accompanies new birth and progressive sanctification, thus making a real CHANGE and thus a progressive change rather than mere lip service but it is not inclusive of these things and can't be inclusive of these things because what justifies is only the works that can satisfy the righteousness of God seen in "the works of the law" or the life of Jesus Christ alone.

 

Your missing the point! The law given to the Jews is the most comprehensive "good works" application of moral law ever devised by God for man. The moral law is meticulously applied to every aspect of their personal, civil and religious life and thus this constitutes "the works of the law" or what is regarded as "good works" in the most comprehensive sense imaginable. Thus the Jew represents the ultimate possible example of what "good works" compasses in every possible facit of life.

To deny that the Jew could be justified by "the works of the law" is to deny that ANY HUMAN BEING could be justified by "good works" as the Jew is the epitomy of what "good works" are about in regard to the MORAL LAW of God in every possible application to every possible aspect of human life.

This is an argument from greater to lessor. If the Jew cannot be justified by "good works" as defined by God's law then NO FLESH could justified by "good works" as NO FLESH applied the works defined by law as "good" more comprehensive than the Jew.

In Romans 2:11-24 it is the hpocrisy of the Jew that is condemned not the Law as it is that very law that God uses as the standard of righteousness to condemn those who come by "good works" on the day of judgement because it is the most comprehensive possible definition given to man in regard to what is "good" versus "bad" works.

Furthermore, Romans 3:19-21 proves that it is not this very same law which "the whole world" will be condemned by (because it is the most comprehensive application of law to every facet of man's existence) but it also MANIFESTS the righteousness of God, which cannot be restricted to just Jews and it also the same law manifest in the rightousness provided in Jesus Christ. It is this exact Law that Christ SATISFIED by his own life and therefore you cannot restrict it to the Jew unless Christ only satisfied the law for the Jew ALONE!!!!!!!

Side lining the "works of the law" as for Jews only, side lines God's own righteousness. Side lining the "works of the law" as for Jews only, side lines the righteousness of Christ" for Jews only as it is this very law that defined HIS OWN LIFE as righteous and satisfactory unto God FOR US!

Paul's point is that if the Jew cannot do "good works" in God's sight to justify him than NO FLESH can as the Jewish life is the most COMPREHENSIVE application of God's moral law to the life of human beings ever attempted on planet earth among any people. If the Jew cannot be justified by "good works" NO HUMAN BEING CAN.

This is why Paul goes back to Abraham BEFORE MOSES, to a gentile BEFORE THE JEWS, to one defined as "ungodly" (v. 5) to clearly demonstrate that justification by faith cannot be inclusive of "good works" as defined by the TEN COMMANDMENTS given to Moses as the basis of all law in the Old Covenant.

 

The Roman Catholic Church believes in "Apostolic succession" which is the historical link to link of Popes going back to Peter. This is "APOSTOLIC succession.

Some Landmarkers believe in "Church Succession" which is historical link to link of churches going back to the first church in Jerusalem. This is "CHURCH" succession.

Some Landmarkers believe in "Church perpetuity" which means there have been baptized believes assembling as New Testament churches every day of every generation from the first church in Jerusalem connected through scriptural baptismal administrators that go back to John the Baptist. This is "BAPTISMAL" succession.

Some Baptists believe in "Spiritual perpetuity" which means God never leaves any generation without a remnant of people who are faithful to the essential truths of God's word. In every generation there are true believers that embrace the essentials of New Testament Christianity and assemble as baptized beleivers because they read and obey the same book - the Bible, but they are not necessarily connected to each other or to apostolic Christianity in any other sense but the belief and practice of the truth. This is "SPIRITUAL" perpetuity. The moderator seems to be of this fourth position and not of any of the first three positions.

 

Justification by faith is WITHOUT WORKS entirely and altogether. Zip, nada! God justifies through faith "the ungodly" and the "ungodly" are "ungodly." Don't confuse cause and consequences. We are first "created in Christ Jesus" (CAUSE) "unto good works" (Consequences) but the "good works" have NOTHING to do with justification by faith.

What is Judiac law? Paul says in Romans 3:21 that it manifests the righteousness of God. True, it is not the only manifestation of the righteousness of God as the rightoeusness of God is manifested "without the law and the prophets" in the life of Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:22).

What is Judiac Law? The Bible calls it "the law of God." God gave it thus it originates with God. However, when God gave it, it was the MORAL LAW on Mount Sinai written on tablets. From this base law (moral law) civil and ceremonial law are derived. Civil law is based upon the moral law as every law has a moral basis. Ceremonial law is based upon moral law as every ceremonial FORM is designed to convey a Moral message or a redemptive truth. The moral, civil and ceremonial law together form the THEOcratic government of Israel which is rule under God. Thus Judaic law manifests the righteousness of God.

What is Judaic Law? It is the law that Jesus Christ was born "under". It is the law that he came to fulfill. It is the law that says that anyone hanging on a tree is cursed. It is "under the law" this law that he challenged anyone to find sin in him. It is the satisfaction of this law that defined him as RIGHTEOUS before God and man. This is the law in Romans 9:32-10:4 that is called the "righteousness of God" that the Jews cannot fulfill but that Christ is "the end of righteousness" to every one that believeth in him.

What is Judaic Law? It is the most comprehensive application of "good works" ever devised and applied by God to mankind that manifests more completely "the righteousness of God" other than God in flesh living out that law.

Paul's whole argument is from lessor to greater. If the Jew cannot be justified by "good works" according to the most comprehensive law given to mankind then NO FLESH can be justified by "good works" and the "whole world" is condemned leaving no other option but to be justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS in the substitutionary works of Jesus Christ.

We are first "created in Christ Jesus" which is inclusive of justification by faith ("for by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves....not of works). Good works follow but good works do not precede that creative work nor are good works inclusive of that creative work, nor is that creative work a response to our good works.

It appears that you are trying to include "good works" in justification by faith?? Is that what you believe? Are you a better man than the Jew? Can you do what no Jew (but one) can do?

 

I suggest that you reread what I said and give particular attention to that part where I spoke about the cause and consequence relationships. Even in your words below you give a cause and consequence relationship. For example, you said "God saves us" (cause) and then you gave the consequence "UNTO good works." Where there is the cause there will be the consequence and that is the argument of James but we are not justified by our works as that reverses cause and consequence.

Justification before God is based upon the substitutionary works of Jesus Christ FOR us that is imputed to us by faith alone. We are not justified by OUR WORKS before God (before men we are) because our works cannot measure up to the standard of God's law of righteousnes.

This is why I asked you previously if you distinguished between faith "in" the gospel versus actions you perform "by" faith. In the former there are no actions you perform but rather you simply receive what Christ has done FOR YOU while in the latter is your consequential response to what you have received that moves you to take actions out of love "by" faith. The first is the cause while the latter is the consequence. The cause is what justifies you before God while the latter justifies your profession of faith before men and is evidential progressive sanctification not to be confused with justification by faith before God.

 

Just because something is inseparable from something else does not mean they are the same or that there is no specific cause and consequence relationship between them. The scriptures do not see justification by faith and sanctification as the same. Nor does the scriptures see justification by faith and good works as the same as the Scriptures clearly state that the "ungodly" is justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS.

If you INCLUDE your good works within justification BEFORE GOD that is "another gospel" which Paul says is "accursed." If that is the gospel you believed in then you are as lost now as you were as a Roman Catholic because that is ESSENTIALLY the very position of Rome. I said "essentially" because they incoporate good works/sacraments with justification as inseparable from each other. Don't give me a technical rebuttal in regard to Rome because your technical rebuttal does not change the PRACTICAL reality that this is how the normal Roman Catholic perceives the doctrine of Justificaiton through sacraments which are "good" works.