Qualifications for Pastor

[ReformedBaptist]

Absolutely false. The Catholic Church stands by the Catechism and anyone who wants to call themselves Catholic must sign on to it. Anglicans will only be accepted into communion with the Catholic Church if they are willing to sign on to the Catechism. The Catholic Church will not compromise it's beliefs for anyone. Rites (or liturgical expression) are not dogma. Anglicans can keep their liturgy. What is wrong with that? It is already a catholic liturgy, why change it? You confuse liturgy with doctrine and celibacy you describe as dogma.

As to you comment on the Catholic Church being 'in fellowship' with the Orthodox Church, what in the world would be wrong with that? Hopefully, some day soon we will be in full-communion with one another. I already pray with Orthodox Christians. I even pray with some of you Baptists!

An observation to the board on this comment, and especially to those who are bible-believers:

When invited to a discussion with a Roman Catholic family (which turned out to be a mini-inquisition, without the fires of course) the main thing the papists strove for was unity. They desired that we pray together.

If these romanists prayed to the Holy Father as I do (that is, God the Father) through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, then I might have been minded to pray with them. But I would not for one second even gaze to heaven in unity with them.

The "elder" from the church I attended did so and greatly damaged his fidelity to Jesus is doing so. Brethren, we are not to engage in worship with apostacy, be it papal, mormon, jehovah witness, or otherwise. These do not stand it the truth of the Gospel. And lest we become partakers in their deeds, we must separate ourselves from such things, in loving obedience to Almighty God, and for conscience sake.

 

[lori4dogs]

Lori, if I understood you correctly, did not you claim you were a "Baptist" before you became a Catholic? Something like Newt Gingrich?

Now, were you a born again saved Baptist or do you look back upon that as being deceived and lost?

If you look back at your Baptist days as a real born again believer then what did joining the Catholic church change in regard to your salvation status?

If it changed nothing then are you saying that the gospel of the Baptist is the same gospel of the Catholic equally saving?

As a Baptist, I had repented of my sins and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and was baptized. I have no doubt I was saved. My salvation 'status' has not changed as a Catholic. I have gained much in the way of spiritual growth though.

As far a being deceived as a Baptist, in matters not salvic I believe I was.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Are you saying then that the gospel preached by Baptists under which you were saved is the same gospel of salvation preached by Rome?

As a Baptist, I had repented of my sins and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and was baptized. I have no doubt I was saved. My salvation 'status' has not changed as a Catholic. I have gained much in the way of spiritual growth though.

As far a being deceived as a Baptist, in matters not salvic I believe I was.

 

[lori4dogs]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces."

 

[Dr. Walter]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces."

So, are you saying that they are the very same gospel but looked at from different perspectives?

Are you saying the Baptist gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without good works is as much saving as the Catholic doctrine of sacramental salvation through the church and ordinances and personal faithfulness?

Are you saying that Baptists can remain Baptists, never submit to Rome, the pope, the sacraments, but thoroughly reject them as anti-christ and still go to heaven?

P.S. I might add that your friends definition of the Protestant gospel is not the definition of the Baptist gospel "without works"

 

[Dr. Walter]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces."

Lori, as a former Baptist (SBC?) you know that your friends characterization of the Protestant gospel includes personal works but the Baptist gospel excludes works. So are you not being deceptive and misleading in this response as you know fully well that the baptist gospel denies exactly what your friend includes in his "Protestant" gospel?

The issue between the Baptist gospel and Roman's gospel is "faith alone" for justification is it not???? Why then attempt to deny that distinction in your response when you know it does not represent the Baptist gospel????

 

[DHK]

So now you start calling me a liar and won't even check it out for yourself. Figures. BTW, you grew up in a Latin Rite Church. You mentioned that you still know much of the latin mass.

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19991002byzantine4.asp

What does the Catechism say about this "doctrine of demons"?

1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities.73 Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

It seems pretty plain to me. There are very few exceptions.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces."

Is it possible that the Baptist gospel which DEMANDS justification "without works" of any kind which also excludes observance of ordinances whereas the RCC gospel which DEMANDS justification through sacraments and good works can be the same gospel?

 

[DHK]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

This is mostly correct.
Salvation is by faith alone in the sacrifice of Christ. One must come to him as a sinner in need of a Saviour. The complete surrender is after salvation. It is not a condition of salvation.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces."

This is hogwash. The Catholic "gospel" is works from the beginning to the end. It starts with the work of baptism without which no one can be saved. Baptism in the RCC is called the new birth which in and of itself is a heresy. It continues with the work of confirmation. It includes the works of confession, the works of penance, the works of faithful attendance at church, the works of keeping the Ten Commandments, the work of prayer, especially saying the rosary or praying to Mary. It is works from birth to death. There is no salvation within the RCC. There is no way to know for sure that one's sins are forgiven except to take the word of a sinful man (a priest) who himself doesn't know for sure if his sins have been forgiven by God. The Catholic can never know for sure.

He doesn't really believe that Christ died for his sins, else he wouldn't set up the scapegoat of Purgatory where he can pay for the sins that Jesus didn't pay for.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

So, you are defining the precise gospel that you believed as a Baptist to be one of salvation by works as that is exactly what the above definition of the Protestant gospel is, which you, claim is accurate in regard to yourself.

So, you were NEVER a baptist in regard to the Baptist definition of the gospel and therefore not a true Christian according to the Baptist definition of a true Christian.

So, you are STILL a lost but RELIGIOUS man if we define you according to the Baptist gospel and Baptist definition of a true Christian.

 

[steaver]

I'm going to quote a friend of mine because I think he is quite accurate:

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces."

Your are avoiding the question with this red-herring.

Your "friends" quote does not answer the question posed to you which I posed to you as well and you never answered. Why not?

Just answer the question;

Was you "saved" while you were a baptist?

If yes, then why the need to change to Catholic?

"The Protestant Gospel is one of Faith in the saving power of Jesus. It is one of complete surrender to God's will and power, with nothing else expected or required of the believer.

Your friend has no understanding of the "protestant gospel". The first sentence he got right. After that he is lost.

The Catholic Gospel is one of Love. Starting with the Love of the father for his creatures, who willingly gave up his son to reconcile us to Himself and who lovingly allows us to decide whether to love him back. The way back to God, is therefore through love of God and love of Neighbor, made possible by his graces and our Faith in those Graces

He then states this as if the protestant gospel does not teach love. The Muslim will tell you they love God and love neighbour. This statement would have them saved as well.

Only through faith in Jesus Christ will one be saved.

Was you saved while being a baptist Lori? If yes, do you feel more saved by being a Catholic?

 

[steaver]

I don't mind the off topic debate on salvation for i would like to know why Lori felt she was saved as a baptist but needed to become a Catholic.

However, I did start this thread because I really wanted to know how different denominations represented here qualify their pastors.

Who here is in a denomination that requires a college degree for example? How about a divorced man? How about a single man?

I know this went off into a catholic debate but catholic doesn't count as a christian denomination, so i don't really care about their qualifications for priest.

 

[lori4dogs]

As a Baptist, I had repented of my sins and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and was baptized. I have no doubt I was saved. My salvation 'status' has not changed as a Catholic. I have gained much in the way of spiritual growth though.

As far a being deceived as a Baptist, in matters not salvic I believe I was.

I guess I need to re-post this.

 

[DHK]

I guess I need to re-post this.

If you were sure you were saved as a Baptist without baptism, how as a Catholic can you now believe that baptism is necessary to salvation.

The only possible way out of this conundrum that I can see is this:
To convert to Catholicism, you first would have to renounce your salvation in the Baptist church because it didn't include baptism. In other words you would have to become unsaved, unborn, lose your eternal life, etc.
Then you would have to be baptized into the Catholic Church in order to be saved, for the new birth is equated to baptism, without which no man can be saved.
1. Saved in the Baptist Church.
2. Be "unsaved."
3. Be saved as a Catholic through baptism.

Is this the process?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Ok,Can we get back to the OP? Can a someone become a Pastor if He was divorced?

 

[DHK]

Ok,Can we get back to the OP? Can a someone become a Pastor if He was divorced?

If the "pastor" is divorced, then:
He is not blameless,
He does not have the rule over his own house (family),
And possibly he is not the husband of one wife.

The first two alone disqualify him.

 

[lori4dogs]

If you were sure you were saved as a Baptist without baptism, how as a Catholic can you now believe that baptism is necessary to salvation.

The only possible way out of this conundrum that I can see is this:
To convert to Catholicism, you first would have to renounce your salvation in the Baptist church because it didn't include baptism. In other words you would have to become unsaved, unborn, lose your eternal life, etc.
Then you would have to be baptized into the Catholic Church in order to be saved, for the new birth is equated to baptism, without which no man can be saved.
1. Saved in the Baptist Church.
2. Be "unsaved."
3. Be saved as a Catholic through baptism.

Is this the process?

I was baptized in the Baptist church. I did not have to be re-baptized a Catholic nor renounce my faith in Christ because I had made a profession of faith while I was a Baptist. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense.

 

[steaver]

If the "pastor" is divorced, then:
He is not blameless,
He does not have the rule over his own house (family),
And possibly he is not the husband of one wife.

The first two alone disqualify him.

I have a brother who was divorced by his wife and he indeed walked "blameless" before God and men. It was ALL her and her need for infidelity. He forgave and forgave her at least twenty times. Thats right, at least. Finally she left anyways for her love of *** over him.

We need to be careful at applying the "blameless" test.

Then there is good "blameless" men who simply have done ALL they could to raise up a child in the Lord yet the child like ALL of us get caught up in a sin such as fornication. Now suddenly the man loses his "blameless" status and becomes disqualified for pastor?

Not sure that is the spirit of the law or the spirit of Paul's "blameless".

 

[steaver]

I was baptized in the Baptist church. I did not have to be re-baptized a Catholic nor renounce my faith in Christ while I was a Baptist. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense.

Did you understand that the baptism was not saving you?

 

[DHK]

Oh, I was baptized.

I realize this. And that makes a contradiction.
Baptism is NOT a requirement for salvation. We who believe the Bible say that it is a heresy if one believes they must be baptized to be saved. In the Bible one was always baptized AFTER they were saved, not before. If you were baptized in a Baptist church it was after you professed salvation in Christ, correct?

When joining the Catholic faith baptism is a part of salvation. It is necessary for salvation. Without it one cannot be saved. That is why infants are baptized--to make sure they will gain entrance into heaven. It is that important in RCC theology. In fact they say that baptism IS the New Birth. Without it the Catholic cannot be saved.

So which contradictory belief do you take. You cannot believe both. One is right and the other is wrong. Which one is right? By which system of theology were you saved? Was the Christ of the Bible, that the Baptists put forth, or the Christ of the RCC? It doesn't seem that both can be correct.