Can ANY Arminian KNOW that Heaven is his home?

[drfuss]

Nobody said anything about "works" or "sin". You are addressing straw men. I have said a half dozen times and some of those directly to you that I understand that you don't believe a Christian forfeits his salvation vie sin but unbelief.
You still have this problem that you CANNOT promise converts heaven or escape from hell if they come to Christ because they may STOP BELIIEVING.



No, as I have made crystal clear, I don't agree and for the reasons I have already stated multiple times. Calvinism does not teach that you must endure to the end to know that you are saved. Calvinism teaches that the truly regenerate have new natures and the Holy Spirit and these things assure the Calvinist that he is saved.

If a person does not endure HE NEVER HAD THESE THINGS AND THEREFORE WAS STUPID TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS SAVED.

So it is your contention that NO Christian can have any real certainty about making it to heaven? No. As I have said a number of times, these uncertainties in both beliefs become certainties through trust in Christ and his keeping power.

There is only uncertainty in the Arminian position. Eternal Security says, "Hey, if you have been truly born again you are going to be in heaven one day unless you stop believing, then you were not a True Christian in the first place."
Arminianism says, "Hey, if you have been born again you will make it unless you stop believing." Again you implied a misrepresentation, I corrected it.

This Calvinist uncertainty stuff you keep bringing up is bogus. If anyone can be sure he is saved then the Calvinist can have absolute certainty that he will make it to heaven. And there is my point. An eternal security Christian can only be sure he is a True Christian by faith now and not later [same faith as the Arminians], because so many others who had faith that they were True Christians, later stopped believing.[/QUOTE]

From my previous post:
"First of all, I am not a FWB, nor have I attended a FWB church. I have belonged to a SBC church for the past 17 years. To join a SBC church, one must be a True Christian. The SBC has 17 Million members with only about 6 or 7 million attending on any given Sunday. My SBC church has a membership of about 6000 who had to be True Christians to join, yet our weekly attendance is around 2200 including children and visitors. Our membership is regularily updated to account for deaths and transfers.

According to the eternal security belief, for every one True Christian that joined our church, two others joined who thought they were True Christians, but were not. With this type of ratio, don't you think you should be warning new Christians that most new Christians think that they are True Christians, but are not?"

You did not answer my question in my previous post. So I will ask it another way. Why don't you warn your eternal security new converts that they may think that they believe now that they are True Christians, but many new converts who think they believe now that they are True Christains now, were not really True Christians because they stopped trusting Christ later?

You expect the Arminians to warn new converts about forfeiting their salvation if they stop believing; then you should warn your new converts that they may believe now that they are really True Christians, but that because many who believe that they are True Christians at the beginning, later stop trusting Christ and were therefore not really True Christians in the first place.

The difference between Arminians and eternal security believers is definitions, terminlogy and a play on words.

If you are not going to answer my question, there is no reason for me to continue on this thread. Having gone to a SBC church all these years, I realize how hard it is for eternal security Christians to grasp the fact that the difference is only terminology and definitions, because eternal security Christians are continually taught that there is a big difference.

 

[RAdam]

This thread is a good example of why straight calvinism leads to a judgemental, hard-hearted, cold attitude. I see people talking about warning other folks about not being "true Christians."

 

[Luke2427]

Drfuss,

No it's not. You're not paying attention.

Unsaved people base their salvation on the wrong things. So they should have never thought they were saved to start with.

Saved people have the Holy Spirit. They are the only ones who can KNOW that they are saved.

It's far more than semantics.

It's the difference between telling a person, "Come to Christ and you will most assuredly miss eternal hell and be with Jesus forever" and "Come to Christ and if you may miss hell and get to heaven but then again you may not."
That's more than semantics Doc.

Eternal Securitists DO NOT TEACH THAT YOU NEED TO WAIT TO THE END TO KNOW IF YOU ARE REALLY SAVED.

Any real Christian can KNOW for sure that he is saved. Any one who thought he was saved and was not was wrong. He never had any cause to think he was saved to start with. It's extraordinarily simple. I can't see why you have such a problem seeing this.
I refer you to post #120 for further explanation.


What is this question you want me to answer?

 

[Luke2427]

This thread is a good example of why straight calvinism leads to a judgemental, hard-hearted, cold attitude. I see people talking about warning other folks about not being "true Christians."

That's ridiculous.

Arminians teach that even if you are saved you may still wind up in hell. Which is more hard hearted?

 

[RAdam]

That's ridiculous.

Arminians teach that even if you are saved you may still wind up in hell. Which is more hard hearted?

They are both wrong. But I'm not talking about doctrine, I'm talking about people and their attitude, which is a result of the doctrine they believe. Straight calvinism leads to an arrogant, judgemental attitude. That's why many won't even give the doctrines of grace a chance, the people are so cold, arrogant, and judgemental. Why shouldn't they be? The doctrine of perserverance they believe in teaches that unless someone conforms to some standard they aren't "true Christians" and they were never really saved at all. Curiously enough, the person touting the standard always sets the standard at least just a little bit below where he/she sees themselves.

Here is what God said. "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are an abomination to the Lord." He also told me I can't see what is in the heart but that He can. I'll leave judgement to Him, lest I condemn one of the just.

 

[drfuss]

Drfuss,

No it's not. You're not paying attention.

Unsaved people base their salvation on the wrong things. So they should have never thought they were saved to start with.

Saved people have the Holy Spirit. They are the only ones who can KNOW that they are saved.

It's far more than semantics.

It's the difference between telling a person, "Come to Christ and you will most assuredly miss eternal hell and be with Jesus forever" and "Come to Christ and if you may miss hell and get to heaven but then again you may not."
That's more than semantics Doc.

Eternal Securitists DO NOT TEACH THAT YOU NEED TO WAIT TO THE END TO KNOW IF YOU ARE REALLY SAVED.

Any real Christian can KNOW for sure that he is saved. Any one who thought he was saved and was not was wrong. He never had any cause to think he was saved to start with. It's extraordinarily simple. I can't see why you have such a problem seeing this.
I refer you to post #120 for further explanation.


What is this question you want me to answer?

Luke,
You still have not answered my question. Why don't you warn new converts about the dangers of not being a True Christain now if they stop believing later ?

Here is my question again:
You did not answer my question in my previous post. So I will ask it another way. Why don't you warn your eternal security new converts that they may think that they believe now that they are True Christians, but many new converts who think they believe now that they are True Christains now, were not really True Christians because they stopped trusting Christ later?

The difference between Arminians and eternal security believers is definitions, terminlogy and a play on words.

If you are not going to answer my question, there is no reason for me to continue on this thread. Having gone to a SBC church all these years, I realize how hard it is for eternal security Christians to grasp the fact that the difference is only terminology and definitions, because eternal security Christians are continually taught that there is a big difference.

Perhaps I should change my saying at the bottom from "The stronger the words, the weaker the argument" to "The larger the letters, the weaker the argument".

 

[Luke2427]

They are both wrong. But I'm not talking about doctrine, I'm talking about people and their attitude, which is a result of the doctrine they believe. Straight calvinism leads to an arrogant, judgemental attitude. That's why many won't even give the doctrines of grace a chance, the people are so cold, arrogant, and judgemental. Why shouldn't they be? The doctrine of perserverance they believe in teaches that unless someone conforms to some standard they aren't "true Christians" and they were never really saved at all. Curiously enough, the person touting the standard always sets the standard at least just a little bit below where he/she sees themselves.

Here is what God said. "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are an abomination to the Lord." He also told me I can't see what is in the heart but that He can. I'll leave judgement to Him, lest I condemn one of the just.

You're just hurling unfounded accusations. Support your claim or keep it to yourself. I don't know a Calvinist who teaches that ANYONE has to conform to ANY standard. I think you pulled that out of your rump.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke,
You still have not answered my question. Why don't you warn new converts about the dangers of not being a True Christain now if they stop believing later ?

Here is my question again:
You did not answer my question in my previous post. So I will ask it another way. Why don't you warn your eternal security new converts that they may think that they believe now that they are True Christians, but many new converts who think they believe now that they are True Christains now, were not really True Christians because they stopped trusting Christ later?

The difference between Arminians and eternal security believers is definitions, terminlogy and a play on words.

If you are not going to answer my question, there is no reason for me to continue on this thread. Having gone to a SBC church all these years, I realize how hard it is for eternal security Christians to grasp the fact that the difference is only terminology and definitions, because eternal security Christians are continually taught that there is a big difference.

Perhaps I should change my saying at the bottom from "The stronger the words, the weaker the argument" to "The larger the letters, the weaker the argument".

I've answered that question ahalf dozen times or more. I'll keep trying since you are courteous enough to continue posting on this thread (not sarcastic).

I do warn people of the dangers of not being a Christian- but it would be silly to warn Christians of the danger of not being Christians. I do say to people if you are truly saved then you are a new creature who loves God and his law and the brethren and you have the Holy Spirit's inner witness.
I say to them- If you don't then you are not saved. You are not in danger of losing your salvation because you have never been saved.

But if you do love God and his law and the brethren and you do have the inner witness of the Spirit you are saved and you will be in heaven one day.

I don't care what your theological persuasion if you are telling people that they can know that they are saved by any other means other than those spelled out in the Scriptures, you are lying to them and giving them a false sense of security.

EVERY good Calvinist warns of the dangers of false conversion.


The good Arminian on the other hand says, "If you have a new nature whereby you love God and the brethren and you have the inner witness of the Spirit then you are saved but that does not mean that you will be in heaven one day."

Now answer my question:
Isn't it dishonest to promise escape from hell and entrance into heaven to converts if you believe that they, being saved, may still "stop believing" and wind up in hell?

 

[Darrenss1]

The good Arminian on the other hand says, "If you have a new nature whereby you love God and the brethren and you have the inner witness of the Spirit then you are saved but that does not mean that you will be in heaven one day."

Now answer my question:
Isn't it dishonest to promise escape from hell and entrance into heaven to converts if you believe that they, being saved, may still "stop believing" and wind up in hell?

It would be dishonest if they knew that was not the case. When they actually "think" one must endure, keeping themselves saved on a personal performance level it is not dishonest, ignorant maybe but not dishonest.

This hasn't been mentioned on this thread but a lot of times the techniques used to "get people saved" usually involves easy streamlined methods such as "pray this prayer", or quick fire converts whom are making a decision to agree to the terms of salvation that the preacher has given rather than an actual encounter with Christ and a confrontation with the truth as from the word of God. They might be made to feel guilty and shocked by the news of hell that they'll be only too happy to pray a quick prayer for "insurance".

The first time I went to a Pentacostal church in 1993 I was a new visitor and that day they called out all the new visitors up the front of the church, had us all pray a sinner's prayer and fill out new convert cards. I had no idea what was going on but they informed us that we were all SAVED!! To say a person is eternally secure by such practices is an offense to the cross of Christ. I spent 8 years after that thinking I was a christian when I wasn't. You could have concluded I had lost my salvation but then again, how I came to be "called" christian was invalid. Anyway, that's just me.

Darren

 

[drfuss]

I've answered that question ahalf dozen times or more. I'll keep trying since you are courteous enough to continue posting on this thread (not sarcastic).

I do warn people of the dangers of not being a Christian- but it would be silly to warn Christians of the danger of not being Christians. I do say to people if you are truly saved then you are a new creature who loves God and his law and the brethren and you have the Holy Spirit's inner witness.
I say to them- If you don't then you are not saved. You are not in danger of losing your salvation because you have never been saved.

But if you do love God and his law and the brethren and you do have the inner witness of the Spirit you are saved and you will be in heaven one day.

I don't care what your theological persuasion if you are telling people that they can know that they are saved by any other means other than those spelled out in the Scriptures, you are lying to them and giving them a false sense of security. Arminians agree with this paragraph.

EVERY good Calvinist warns of the dangers of false conversion. Or believing you are a True Christian when you may not be if you stop believing later?


The good Arminian on the other hand says, "If you have a new nature whereby you love God and the brethren and you have the inner witness of the Spirit then you are saved but that does not mean that you will be in heaven one day if you stop believing."

Now answer my question:
Isn't it dishonest to promise escape from hell and entrance into heaven to converts if you believe that they, being saved, may still "stop believing" and wind up in hell?

Not dishonest at all as long as you tell them that if they stop believing and die in an unbelieving state, they will not go to heaven.


Having been in an eternal security believing church for 17 years, I can understand why eternal security believers have a problem with accepting that Arminians are just as secure in their continued salvation, as eternal security believers are.

Eternal security churches teach that a Christian's salvation is secure because of eternal security. It is implied and sometimes said that if you don't believe in eternal security, you cannot be sure of your continued salvation [even though that is not true]. Therefore, eternal security believers are afraid to even consider anything other than eternal security for fear of not being secure in their salvation. So I can understand why you will not even consider what I am saying.

Actually, a Christian's salvation is secure as long as he continues trusting in Christ and only because he is trusting in Christ as Savior and Lord.

I have shown that both the eternal security and the Arminian beliefs have the same type of continued salvation uncertainites as seen by others. These uncertainties become certainties by Trusting in Christ and His keeping power within each belief. As explained above, I understand why eternal security believers cannot or will not accept these facts because of their long time continual eternal security training.

Considering the above, I see no reason to continue on this thread since your mind is closed to anything but your eternal security belief.

Thanks for your ideas and answers to my posts.

drfuss signing off.

 

[Luke2427]

Not dishonest at all as long as you tell them that if they stop believing and die in an unbelieving state, they will not go to heaven.


Having been in an eternal security believing church for 17 years, I can understand why eternal security believers have a problem with accepting that Arminians are just as secure in their continued salvation, as eternal security believers are.

Eternal security churches teach that a Christian's salvation is secure because of eternal security. It is implied and sometimes said that if you don't believe in eternal security, you cannot be sure of your continued salvation [even though that is not true]. Therefore, eternal security believers are afraid to even consider anything other than eternal security for fear of not being secure in their salvation. So I can understand why you will not even consider what I am saying.

Actually, a Christian's salvation is secure as long as he continues trusting in Christ and only because he is trusting in Christ as Savior and Lord.

I have shown that both the eternal security and the Arminian beliefs have the same type of continued salvation uncertainites as seen by others. These uncertainties become certainties by Trusting in Christ and His keeping power within each belief. As explained above, I understand why eternal security believers cannot or will not accept these facts because of their long time continual eternal security training.

Considering the above, I see no reason to continue on this thread since your mind is closed to anything but your eternal security belief.

Thanks for your ideas and answers to my posts.

drfuss signing off.

Thanks for the dialogue, drfuss (sincerely not sarcastically).

Your error is assuming that uncertainty becomes certainty because of trusting in Christ. Scripture does not teach this. It teaches that we know we are saved because of the new nature.

Assurance is not based on believing but on the new nature.

The Calvinist says, "If you have a new nature then you can know that you are saved and therefore you will most certainly be in heaven one day."

The honest Arminian says, "If you have a new nature then you can know that you are saved but you really have no idea if you will ever see heaven because you may stop believing."

 

[nodak]

Have I been taught wrong?

We moved many times and a few times the ONLY church to attend was strongly Arminian. To get to heaven you had to persevere....yourself.

The times we were in strongly Calvinistic churches that were also Lordship Salvation we basically heard the same thing: unless you persevere, you were never saved so you better persevere or no heaven for you.

But once--we were taught by a pastor who considered himself totally tulip. He taught us that once God regenerated you it was a done deal and He WOULD persevere in sanctifying you. Done deal, it WILL happen. Cooperate with Spirit and it won't be nearly so unpleasant as resisting, but those whom He regenerates He WILL sanctify.

He told us the first two were "works based" and that what he taught was "grace based" salvation.

Was he wrong?

 

[psalms109:31]

Work

Romans 4:5
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Only men believe trusting in Christ is work based, not God.

 

[Winman]

Assurance is not based on believing but on the new nature.

I disagree. You cannot know by your behavior. Many unsaved folks lead very good lives, they go to church, they pray, they read their bible, they are honest etc... These people are convinced by their own behavior that they are going to heaven.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What did these people claim as the basis for their salvation? Works. They called Jesus Lord, they prophesied in his name, cast out devils and did many wonderful works. In their mind they believed themselves saved based on their behavior, their works.

But Jesus said he NEVER knew them. They had never trusted Christ. They had never seen their sinfulness and need for Jesus and went to him personally for salvation.

No, the way to know you are saved is by the Word of God. If you have personally gone to Jesus in your heart and cast yourself upon him, depending and relying upon Him alone to save you, then you know from the Word of God you are saved.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I don't know I am saved because of some feeling, I don't know I am saved because I believe myself to be perservering, I know I am saved because I know I trusted Christ and the Word of God says I am saved.

But this is a problem for some, because they have been taught they cannot come to Christ, they have been taught they do not have the ability to believe or trust him. Therefore, because they cannot know they have trusted Jesus, they can never be sure they are saved.

Believing on Jesus is a once-and-for-all event. Once you trust him you are saved forever. You cannot lose it, you cannot forfeit it.

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Here Jesus compared the Holy Spirit and everlasting life to water. With normal water your thirst is never quenched, you must return over and over and drink again. But if you take just one drink of the water that Jesus gives you, you will never thirst again. You do not have to come back and drink over and over again. Your thirst is quenched once and for all, forever.

 

[Luke2427]

Have I been taught wrong?

We moved many times and a few times the ONLY church to attend was strongly Arminian. To get to heaven you had to persevere....yourself.

The times we were in strongly Calvinistic churches that were also Lordship Salvation we basically heard the same thing: unless you persevere, you were never saved so you better persevere or no heaven for you.

But once--we were taught by a pastor who considered himself totally tulip. He taught us that once God regenerated you it was a done deal and He WOULD persevere in sanctifying you. Done deal, it WILL happen. Cooperate with Spirit and it won't be nearly so unpleasant as resisting, but those whom He regenerates He WILL sanctify.

He told us the first two were "works based" and that what he taught was "grace based" salvation.

Was he wrong?

No. He was right. Truly regenerate people, be they ever so flawed, will trust Christ until the end because his "sheep follow him" and "a stranger they WILL NOT follow" God will hold them and none can pluck them out of his hand. John 10

 

[Luke2427]

I disagree. You cannot know by your behavior. Many unsaved folks lead very good lives, they go to church, they pray, they read their bible, they are honest etc... These people are convinced by their own behavior that they are going to heaven.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What did these people claim as the basis for their salvation? Works. They called Jesus Lord, they prophesied in his name, cast out devils and did many wonderful works. In their mind they believed themselves saved based on their behavior, their works.

But Jesus said he NEVER knew them. They had never trusted Christ. They had never seen their sinfulness and need for Jesus and went to him personally for salvation.

No, the way to know you are saved is by the Word of God. If you have personally gone to Jesus in your heart and cast yourself upon him, depending and relying upon Him alone to save you, then you know from the Word of God you are saved.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I don't know I am saved because of some feeling, I don't know I am saved because I believe myself to be perservering, I know I am saved because I know I trusted Christ and the Word of God says I am saved.

But this is a problem for some, because they have been taught they cannot come to Christ, they have been taught they do not have the ability to believe or trust him. Therefore, because they cannot know they have trusted Jesus, they can never be sure they are saved.

Believing on Jesus is a once-and-for-all event. Once you trust him you are saved forever. You cannot lose it, you cannot forfeit it.

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Here Jesus compared the Holy Spirit and everlasting life to water. With normal water your thirst is never quenched, you must return over and over and drink again. But if you take just one drink of the water that Jesus gives you, you will never thirst again. You do not have to come back and drink over and over again. Your thirst is quenched once and for all, forever.

No one said anything about behavior. Behavior and the new nature are not synonyms. If you disagree that the new nature is the thing that gives assurance then you disagree with the Word of God. Read I John (the whole book not just a proof text like you pulled out via 5:13. There you will find that the "these things" refers to the new nature as spelled out clearly in chapter 2:2-11 and other places) and II Corinthians 5:17 and a host of other Scriptures.

Believing brings salvation not assurance of salvation. Only the new nature gives real assurance.

 

[Winman]

No one said anything about behavior. Behavior and the new nature are not synonyms. If you disagree that the new nature is the thing that gives assurance then you disagree with the Word of God. Read I John and II Corinthians 5:17 and a host of other Scriptures.

Believing brings salvation not assurance of salvation. Only the new nature gives real assurance.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


OK, I understand this verse, if a person is in Christ they are a new creature.

Now, how does that tell me I have a new nature? How does a person recognize that they have a new nature?

 

[Luke2427]

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


OK, I understand this verse, if a person is in Christ they are a new creature.

Now, how does that tell me I have a new nature? How does a person recognize that they have a new nature?

Read the other passage I posted for the answer to that.

Do you understand that the new nature and the new creature are the same thing?

 

[psalms109:31]

Saved

drfuss I think i do know what you are trying to say.

Armenian or Calvinist it doesn't matter if they are living in unbelief not trusting in Christ, they are not even concerned if they saved or not apparently they are not even worried about it.

Armenian or Calvinist it doesn't matter if they believe trust in Christ they know they are going to heaven.

Why are we worried about someone who don't even care, all we can do is pray for them and do as the scripture say's with one another.


Hebrews 3:
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."[Psalm 95:7,8]

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

It doesn't tell me to get people to trust in their eternal security, but to encourage them to trust in the Lord. I will not divert from the plan of God.

 

[Luke2427]

drfuss I think i do know what you are trying to say.

Armenian or Calvinist it doesn't matter if they are living in unbelief not trusting in Christ, they are not even concerned if they saved or not apparently they are not even worried about it.

Armenian or Calvinist it doesn't matter if they believe trust in Christ they know they are going to heaven.

Why are we worried about someone who don't even care, all we can do is pray for them and do as the scripture say's with one another.


Hebrews 3:
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."[Psalm 95:7,8]

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

It doesn't tell me to get people to trust in their eternal security, but to encourage them to trust in the Lord. I will not divert from the plan of God.

No one is trying to get anyone to trust in eternal security. We are trying to get regenerate folks to trust God who keeps them secure eternally.