What is the largest Church in America?

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. Romans 10:9

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. Romans 10:12:thumbs:

GE:
Amen!
And for the RCCs, it says, "IF you will confess ... IF you will believe"; NOT: "YOU if you will ... YOU if you believe" "IF you believe", you believe "Faith is the gift of GOD", not the natural ability of man! Therefore, "You are saved by grace" from the start and in the end: ALONE!

 

[Jedi Knight]

GE:
Very enigmatic. But I consider myself a Protestant and Reformed Protestant for that, even though I differ on cardinal ethical doctrines -- 'water-baptism' and Sunday-worship. NOTHING EVER can undo my affiliation with the only Christian Church of all time; least my own differences I have with God's only Children on earth.

Please note, I do not say or imply here the Baptists are not also this Church of God.

If anyone trusts in Water Baptisim to save then they are doomed. Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Water was a picture "in the natural" of the spirit "supernatural". If you don't get this then you like the Very Religious Nicodemus who didn't understand eather because he was flesh "though religious". "Why is my language not clear to you?" Jesus said to the religious crowd. John 8:43 Those who hated Christ was not just thiefs and murders ect.,but the Religious people who didn't love Him. They "the religious" hated Jesus correcting them because they were trying to establish their own righteousness "and triditions" rather that submitting to the righteouness of God.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

GE:
Amen!
And for the RCCs, it says, "IF you will confess ... IF you will believe"; NOT: "YOU if you will ... YOU if you believe" "IF you believe", you believe "Faith is the gift of GOD", not the natural ability of man! Therefore, "You are saved by grace" from the start and in the end: ALONE!

Yes ....got it. Also Martyn Lloyd-Jones that you recommended was a member in good standing with the CALVINIST METHODISTS. My dads family comes from the Welsh Calvinist Methodists. If you know anything about them, they were a people that attested to Calvinism but didn't write a confession of faith till much later so I doubt you could properly consider them Reformed in the context of the word today. When they finally did create a confession it included both infant & Credo baptism & did not wish for baptism to be a dividing mark. How interesting to allow both to coexist. Something within the last 50-75 Years must of happened to these Calvinist Methodists because they merged into the Presbyterians.

In any event my Great Grandfather was a coal miner in the pit-fields of Pennsylvania & a open air preacher on the side.....traveling 20 miles each Sabbath to conduct services. His 4 sons were named Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. My kid brother is a Fundamentalist Minister & he's named Mark also. There is a long line of preachers in my family (all Calvinists)

 

[DHK]

Yes ....got it. Also Martyn Lloyd-Jones that you recommended was a member in good standing with the CALVINIST METHODISTS. My dads family comes from the Welsh Calvinist Methodists. If you know anything about them, they were a people that attested to Calvinism but didn't write a confession of faith till much later so I doubt you could properly consider them Reformed in the context of the word today. When they finally did create a confession it included both infant & Credo baptism & did not wish for baptism to be a dividing mark. How interesting to allow both to coexist. Something within the last 50-75 Years must of happened to these Calvinist Methodists because they merged into the Presbyterians.

In any event my Great Grandfather was a coal miner in the pit-fields of Pennsylvania & a open air preacher on the side.....traveling 20 miles each Sabbath to conduct services. His 4 sons were named Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. My kid brother is a Fundamentalist Minister & he's named Mark also. There is a long line of preachers in my family (all Calvinists)

And my wife used to be a Presbyterian. So what? That proves nothing. She was saved at the age of seven. She came from a Bible Presbyterian Church which is very fundamental and evangelical to this day.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

GE:
Amen!
And for the RCCs, it says, "IF you will confess ... IF you will believe"; NOT: "YOU if you will ... YOU if you believe" "IF you believe", you believe "Faith is the gift of GOD", not the natural ability of man! Therefore, "You are saved by grace" from the start and in the end: ALONE!

By the way Gerhard my King James " If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Also for everyones edification, I was taught that by Sister Louis Marie in Catholic School in the 4th grade. (Before Vatican II). At the same time my dad was teaching me about the reformation & how this priest, Martin Luther nailed his points of argument to the door of the church in Wittenberg. Needless to say my childhood was full of historical & theological data I had to process... always Christ centered, but always devoid of ritual (must of been because of Dads background).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And my wife used to be a Presbyterian. So what? That proves nothing. She was saved at the age of seven. She came from a Bible Presbyterian Church which is very fundamental and evangelical to this day.

DHK, why are you being so rude?

 

[DHK]

In any event my Great Grandfather was a coal miner in the pit-fields of Pennsylvania & a open air preacher on the side.....traveling 20 miles each Sabbath to conduct services. His 4 sons were named Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. My kid brother is a Fundamentalist Minister & he's named Mark also. There is a long line of preachers in my family (all Calvinists)

You are fortunate to have a rich heritage of those who believed the Bible.
On one side of his family (his mother's side) Timothy had that same type of heritage, but his father was not saved.

2 Timothy 1:4-5 Greatly desiring to see thee, being mindful of thy tears, that I may be filled with joy;
5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

DHK--- Yes I am & 3 of my 1st cousins are also ministers..... may I ask if you have ministry & or seminary training?

 

[DHK]

DHK--- Yes I am & 3 of my 1st cousins are also ministers..... may I ask if you have ministry & or seminary training?

I have been in the ministry for over 30 years, mostly on the mission field. I have graduated from seminary many years ago.

 

[brucebaptist]

I live in a predominately Catholic nation. I don't recall ever meeting a saved Catholic. They are as blind to the gospel as Muslims are. I try to point this out to you. You are blind to it as well. And if you believe the RCC doctrine on it you are not saved either.

Choose ye this day which you believe.
Are you born again? If so by whose theology? the RCC? Or, by the evangelical teaching of the Bible? The one contradicts the other and both cannot be right. The one sends a person straight to hell, and the other leads a person straight to heaven. Lori are you born again? And by whose interpretation?

The RCC's interpretation of the new birth is to be baptized. That interpretation will send a person straight to hell. The new birth is not baptism.

To be born again is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (and his sacrificial work) and trust him as your Savior. Come to him as a sinner, admit your need as sinner. If you got what you deserved you would end up in hell. But Christ died and took the penalty for your sins. You were born into Satan's family. Christ asks you to trust him that you might be born into God's family and be His child. Will you accept him by faith and faith alone. This has nothing to do with baptism.

yes, catholics are as blind as muslims. in fact even worse. false Christianity is worse than false religion. a counterfeit dollar is counterfeit. its worth nothing. a counterfeit $100 bill is not worth $90, its worth nothing. false is false.

the NT is full of verses that say to reject anything that is not Biblical. NOTHING from RCC is Biblical. nothing. it is all to be rejected. tradition is to be rejected unless given by the Bible.

one of the 100+ anathemas by the Council of Trent, is that if anyone believes that a person is saved by grace and not by works, let them go to helll...

what does the Bible say? we are saved by grace, not works..."

they are in complete opposition to each other.

over and over the NT says Jesus died ONCE... but what do the catholics do? they murder Him over and over, 200,000 times per day.! the mass is a sacrifice.

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/link/e-litur.html

every catholic is going to stand before Jesus one day and have to explain why they murdered Him over and over and held Him to a public shame.... read Heb 6-10. He died ONCE. Rom 6:10

catholics do not believe the Word of God. they say they do but do not. you cannot believe what verses you want, or the verses that make you feel fuzzy. all of the Bible is the Word of God. you believe it all or none. Jesus IS the Word of God. John 1:14. you cannot choose part of Jesus and not the rest... its all or nothing,...

every catholic tradition breaks the laws of the Word of God.

praying to Mary is necromancy...
the mass is murdering Jesus over and over, putting Him to shame...
eating Jesus is cannibalism... eating His Word is obedience...
the rosary is praying long prayers like the heathens...
calling the priest, pope, the (holy) father, is sin...
believing the priest can forgive your sin is blasphemy...

the RCC does everything they can to blaspheme Christ.... i cant wait till that system is destroyed in one hour... as Jesus said it would be....

hate what God hates and love what He loves... God hates false religion.

 

[lori4dogs]

Had you bothered to read the any of the page for which you provided the link you would have found:

'Relation of the Mass to Calvary. In order to see how the Mass is related to Calvary, we must immediately distinguish between the actual Redemption of the world and the communication of Christ's redemptive graces to a sinful human race.

On the Cross, Christ really redeemed the human family. He is the one true Mediator between God and an estranged humanity. On the Cross, He merited all the graces that the world would need to be reconciled with an offended God.

When He died, the separation of His blood from His body caused the separation of His human soul from the body, which caused His death. He willed to die in the deepest sense of the word. He chose to die. In His own words, He laid down His life for the salvation of a sinful mankind.

But His physical death on Calvary was not to be an automatic redemption of a sin-laden world. It would not exclude the need for us to appropriate the merits He gained on the Cross; nor would it exclude the need for our voluntary cooperation with the graces merited by the Savior's shedding of His blood.

The key to seeing the relation between Calvary and the Mass is the fact that the same identical Jesus Christ now glorified is present on the altar at Mass as He was present in His mortal humanity on the Cross.

Since it is the same Jesus, we must say He continues in the Mass what He did on Calvary except that now in the Mass, He is no longer mortal or capable of suffering in His physical person. On Calvary He was, by His own choice, capable of suffering and dying. What He did then was to gain the blessings of our redemption. What He does now in the Mass is apply these blessings to the constant spiritual needs of a sinful, suffering humanity

 

[DHK]

Since it is the same Jesus, we must say He continues in the Mass what He did on Calvary except that now in the Mass, He is no longer mortal or capable of suffering in His physical person.

How blasphemous! This same Jesus sits on the right hand of the throne of God in his resurrected body, in that same body in which he invited Thomas and said:

John 20:27-28 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

This was no spirit that Thomas was looking at.

The mass is superstitious, no better than many of the beliefs of Hindus.

BTW, Lori, have you decided yet what it means to be born again?
Have you been born again? If so how? By RCC theology? Or, by the way any evangelical would interpret it?

 

[brucebaptist]

Had you bothered to read the any of the page for which you provided the link you would have found:

'Relation of the Mass to Calvary. In order to see how the Mass is related to Calvary, we must immediately distinguish between the actual Redemption of the world and the communication of Christ's redemptive graces to a sinful human race.

On the Cross, Christ really redeemed the human family. He is the one true Mediator between God and an estranged humanity. On the Cross, He merited all the graces that the world would need to be reconciled with an offended God.

When He died, the separation of His blood from His body caused the separation of His human soul from the body, which caused His death. He willed to die in the deepest sense of the word. He chose to die. In His own words, He laid down His life for the salvation of a sinful mankind.

But His physical death on Calvary was not to be an automatic redemption of a sin-laden world. It would not exclude the need for us to appropriate the merits He gained on the Cross; nor would it exclude the need for our voluntary cooperation with the graces merited by the Savior's shedding of His blood.

The key to seeing the relation between Calvary and the Mass is the fact that the same identical Jesus Christ now glorified is present on the altar at Mass as He was present in His mortal humanity on the Cross.

Since it is the same Jesus, we must say He continues in the Mass what He did on Calvary except that now in the Mass, He is no longer mortal or capable of suffering in His physical person. On Calvary He was, by His own choice, capable of suffering and dying. What He did then was to gain the blessings of our redemption. What He does now in the Mass is apply these blessings to the constant spiritual needs of a sinful, suffering humanity

God is not the author of confusion... 1Cor14:33...
now go back and read what you just wrote... you have no idea of what you just wrote. neither does God because it is not Biblical.

let me ask you... when your church was murdering millions of people, mostly Bible believers... was that Christian? Biblical? in case you cannot think of something to respond with... let me help you.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

your beloved church has murdered millions of innocent people. that is NOT Christ's Church. that is satans church. satan was a murderer from the beginning and still is... history interprets prophecy. history tells us that the papacy has/was/is butchered MILLIONS... why on earth do you want to put your salvation (WHICH IS PRECIOUS) in the hands of murderers????

your soul is SO PRECIOUS.... do not let the vain traditions and doctrines of devils of men beguile you...

follow Jesus by following the Bible!

please stop reading and defending a group of men that have the blood of the martyrs on their hands. Christ is freedom... religion is bondage.

Christ can free you right now from error. disease. sin. apostasy. the papacy. the mass. and all of the other atrocities of the papacy...

believe on Him and reject popery!

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Had you bothered to read the any of the page for which you provided the link you would have found:

'Relation of the Mass to Calvary. In order to see how the Mass is related to Calvary, we must immediately distinguish between the actual Redemption of the world and the communication of Christ's redemptive graces to a sinful human race.

On the Cross, Christ really redeemed the human family. He is the one true Mediator between God and an estranged humanity. On the Cross, He merited all the graces that the world would need to be reconciled with an offended God.

When He died, the separation of His blood from His body caused the separation of His human soul from the body, which caused His death. He willed to die in the deepest sense of the word. He chose to die. In His own words, He laid down His life for the salvation of a sinful mankind.

But His physical death on Calvary was not to be an automatic redemption of a sin-laden world. It would not exclude the need for us to appropriate the merits He gained on the Cross; nor would it exclude the need for our voluntary cooperation with the graces merited by the Savior's shedding of His blood.

The key to seeing the relation between Calvary and the Mass is the fact that the same identical Jesus Christ now glorified is present on the altar at Mass as He was present in His mortal humanity on the Cross.

Since it is the same Jesus, we must say He continues in the Mass what He did on Calvary except that now in the Mass, He is no longer mortal or capable of suffering in His physical person. On Calvary He was, by His own choice, capable of suffering and dying. What He did then was to gain the blessings of our redemption. What He does now in the Mass is apply these blessings to the constant spiritual needs of a sinful, suffering humanity

Not only, as DHK remarked, is this blasphemy, but it is also no where mentioned in Scripture. Look at my quote Lori. Judge what you posted here by Holy Scirpture.

As a side note to Evangelicals, look at what the papists are teaching with regard to the atonement of Christ. The papists teach that Christ's Redemption gained the blessings, and that in their Mass is it applied to those who take it.

In this you may see the insipid and destructiveness embedded in Arminian teaching. A universal atonement only applied to the chooser.

 

[brucebaptist]

Had you bothered to read the any of the page for which you provided the link you would have found:

'Relation of the Mass to Calvary. In order to see how the Mass is related to Calvary, we must immediately distinguish between the actual Redemption of the world and the communication of Christ's redemptive graces to a sinful human race.

On the Cross, Christ really redeemed the human family. He is the one true Mediator between God and an estranged humanity. On the Cross, He merited all the graces that the world would need to be reconciled with an offended God.

When He died, the separation of His blood from His body caused the separation of His human soul from the body, which caused His death. He willed to die in the deepest sense of the word. He chose to die. In His own words, He laid down His life for the salvation of a sinful mankind.

But His physical death on Calvary was not to be an automatic redemption of a sin-laden world. It would not exclude the need for us to appropriate the merits He gained on the Cross; nor would it exclude the need for our voluntary cooperation with the graces merited by the Savior's shedding of His blood.

The key to seeing the relation between Calvary and the Mass is the fact that the same identical Jesus Christ now glorified is present on the altar at Mass as He was present in His mortal humanity on the Cross.

Since it is the same Jesus, we must say He continues in the Mass what He did on Calvary except that now in the Mass, He is no longer mortal or capable of suffering in His physical person. On Calvary He was, by His own choice, capable of suffering and dying. What He did then was to gain the blessings of our redemption. What He does now in the Mass is apply these blessings to the constant spiritual needs of a sinful, suffering humanity

l4d,
there are folks here who love your soul and will tell you the truth. there is NO truth in romanism. Jesus said, "thy Word is Truth"...

Jesus is the Truth. the Word is the Truth... anything that disagrees with the Word is not Truth.... believe in the Word... it has the power to save. the popes have the power to send to helll.... the pope has the same regard for your soul as they did for John Wycliffe, whom they persecuted and then dug up his bones once dead and burned them at the stake and then threw his ashes in the river....

Jesus said 'do violence to NO man'... so what can we say about a 'church' that has gone around the world persecuting, killing, murdering, torturing, etc...? the Word is Truth. romanism is NOT found in the Truth...

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Though they dug up the bones of Wycliffe and cast them into the river, and the river carried them through the countryside and to many tributaries and ultimately to the ocean which touches the uttermost parts of the earth...

So God took the doctrines of Wycliffe, which were basically Holy Scripture, and carried them through England and the neighboring regions, to the sea of humanity and touched the whole world by His truth.

 

[brucebaptist]

Though they dug up the bones of Wycliffe and cast them into the river, and the river carried them through the countryside and to many tributaries and ultimately to the ocean which touches the uttermost parts of the earth...

So God took the doctrines of Wycliffe, which were basically Holy Scripture, and carried them through England and the neighboring regions, to the sea of humanity and touched the whole world by His truth.

just goes to show you how God can take something evil (which is the only thing that comes from popery)
and turn it into something good... glory to God.

 

[lori4dogs]

just goes to show you how God can take something evil (which is the only thing that comes from popery)
and turn it into something good... glory to God.

Bigotry just keeps raising it's ugly head on this board. Oh, well.

 

[lori4dogs]

How blasphemous! This same Jesus sits on the right hand of the throne of God in his resurrected body, in that same body in which he invited Thomas and said:

John 20:27-28 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

This was no spirit that Thomas was looking at.

The mass is superstitious, no better than many of the beliefs of Hindus.

BTW, Lori, have you decided yet what it means to be born again?
Have you been born again? If so how? By RCC theology? Or, by the way any evangelical would interpret it?

BTW, DHK, how many times will you continue to ask me the same question over and over again? Been asked and answered. Read through the thread again. I stand by my answer, the biblical one!

 

[DHK]

BTW, DHK, how many times will you continue to ask me the same question over and over again? Been asked and answered. Read through the thread again. I stand by my answer, the biblical one!

How can you believe one thing and go to a church that believes another contradictory view that actually sends people to hell. If you say you have trusted Christ as your Savior then there is no possible way you can believe in baptismal regeneration. Is it Jesus that saves or is it water? Which one?