adisciplinedlearner
New Member
Did Christ and His apostles drink wine as a beverage?
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Wine As A Beverage
- Thread starter adisciplinedlearner
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You must remember that water quality was interesting in many ways...a good way to ingest intestinal worms, with running water....there may have been garbage or worse being deposited up stream etc.
Wine in that time was very very strong and water was used to cut it so to speak and to disguise the water's taste.
Metal cups could leach toxins in the case where lead was used, it was a common metal being malleable, and people unknowing of the poisonous aspects.Copper was also known.
Wine would have not been as of today with the endless varieties as we know.
Squishing fruit into juice would have been limited by the volume of fruit available. Milks were used, with the inherent diseases therin....tuberculosis in cows would have been one, cow pox etc.I do not know the Jewish restrictions on this ....
Beer would have been available from the Egyptian culture, again a thin weak and "green" affair to what we know beer of today. Was there a history of distilled spirits at this time, I do not know
Wine in that time was very very strong and water was used to cut it so to speak and to disguise the water's taste.
Metal cups could leach toxins in the case where lead was used, it was a common metal being malleable, and people unknowing of the poisonous aspects.Copper was also known.
Wine would have not been as of today with the endless varieties as we know.
Squishing fruit into juice would have been limited by the volume of fruit available. Milks were used, with the inherent diseases therin....tuberculosis in cows would have been one, cow pox etc.I do not know the Jewish restrictions on this ....
Beer would have been available from the Egyptian culture, again a thin weak and "green" affair to what we know beer of today. Was there a history of distilled spirits at this time, I do not know
GE:
I wonder if it was only the best, what about the wine before the best at the wedding? And Jesus and his friends were not of the rich ....
Whilst Jesus and the apostles were not rich, they would no doubt have accepted dinner invitations from the faithful who would have put out the best that they could after the manner of any houseproud wifey of any age.
They would have eaten as of kings and as of the poor.
They would have eaten as of kings and as of the poor.
Sure is.
Houseproud wifey?
Like Sarah?
Genesis 18:8 (milk:thumbs
Or Jael?
Judges 4:19 (milk:thumbs
I'm not sure but aren't both cases situations where they were traveling and maybe didn't have any wine or not enough wine? Milk you can take on the hoof. Wine is much tougher to do so. The vines tend to like to stay where they are.
But can we know that they had wine when doing long travels? Was the Samaritan traveling a long ways? We know that Abraham was. I'm not sure about the others.
Just some thoughts - I don't know the answers.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
Many modern-day Baptist churches do not permit their members to drink wine as a beverage. This means that Christ and His apostles would not qualify as members of these churches.
I'm a non-smokers and very anti-smoking; yet smoking can never disqualify one to be a Christian or be reason to throw him out of the Church (as some churches do). If smoking cannot much less can drinking wine.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I would think so.
Crudence defines 'bowels (of mercy)', "the seat of pity or kindness".
'splanchna oiktirmou' Marshall, "bowels of compassion". Col3:12
'splanchna' NT. 'inward affection', 'tenderness'.
'to splanchnon', 'the initiated'; (How is one 'initiated'?)
'the FOUNTAIN of love'' e.g., Herondas, Theokritt, Dionysius.
Collins defines 'bowl' as an 'intoxicating DRINK'
Classic Greek Dictionary, 'to splanchnon', "such inward parts as are fit for EATING" (Something to do with the 'spleen' so important for the metabolism associated with alcohol?)
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Colossians uses 'splanchidzomai' 3:12 in the clear context of "eating and drinking".
I say no more than to make these suggestions, and you may decide for yourselves about conclusions, but if Paul's condoning of the use of alcoholic drink may not be seen, then what does he condone here? He means what he says 'spiritually', for sure! But 'spiritually', with reference to what?
What I mean is, although spiritually, Paul refers to alcoholic drink. Like the Old Testament somewhere literally commanded, "Pour out STRONG DRINK before the Lord" for an offering commanded by God.
'splanchna oiktirmou' Marshall, "bowels of compassion". Col3:12
'splanchna' NT. 'inward affection', 'tenderness'.
'to splanchnon', 'the initiated'; (How is one 'initiated'?)
'the FOUNTAIN of love'' e.g., Herondas, Theokritt, Dionysius.
Collins defines 'bowl' as an 'intoxicating DRINK'
Classic Greek Dictionary, 'to splanchnon', "such inward parts as are fit for EATING" (Something to do with the 'spleen' so important for the metabolism associated with alcohol?)
.
Colossians uses 'splanchidzomai' 3:12 in the clear context of "eating and drinking".
I say no more than to make these suggestions, and you may decide for yourselves about conclusions, but if Paul's condoning of the use of alcoholic drink may not be seen, then what does he condone here? He means what he says 'spiritually', for sure! But 'spiritually', with reference to what?
What I mean is, although spiritually, Paul refers to alcoholic drink. Like the Old Testament somewhere literally commanded, "Pour out STRONG DRINK before the Lord" for an offering commanded by God.
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Wine stops fermenting on its own at between 14 to 16% alcohol. This is the point where the alcohol kills the yeast. Basicly it disinfects itself at this percent. This is what most wine is today and what wine would have been then. The only way to get wine with higher alcohol content is to add distilled alcohol, done today in some wines but not most. Wine then would be just like wine today.
There would have been as many varieties of wine as there are fields of grapes and years of vintige.
Beer would have been much the same as today for the same reason. I dont know why everybody thinks beer and wine would be so different. It was made much the same way with the same ingrediants.
Yes they had distilled alcohol.
Jesus, being our High Priest, would not have drank wine (if fermented at all) to the point that it had any power to alter the mind.
We as believers in Christ are a royal priesthood. God has made us kings and priest. Kings and priest are commanded by God to not drink any alcoholic beverage.
Pro 31:4[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
We are called to be above reproach. It is sad that many Christians do not search the scriptures that they might not sin against God.
1Th 5:22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Hbr 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
We as believers in Christ are a royal priesthood. God has made us kings and priest. Kings and priest are commanded by God to not drink any alcoholic beverage.
Pro 31:4[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
We are called to be above reproach. It is sad that many Christians do not search the scriptures that they might not sin against God.
1Th 5:22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Hbr 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Re: "Pro 31:4[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:"
GE:
The context clearly is the abuse of wine. Compare verse 3, Are kings not allowed to marry? But all men are advised not to "give your strength" to whatever otherwise good practice, and be the slaves of it. God's people should RULE over their weaknesses and not become adulterers and drunkards. It is not the opposite sex and wine as such that are forbidden. A Christian is not a Roman Catholic priest.
You argued that we are the priest-dom of God and therefore are not allowed to drink wine. What about the offering the PRIESTDOM should bring to God of "strong drink"?
GE:
The context clearly is the abuse of wine. Compare verse 3, Are kings not allowed to marry? But all men are advised not to "give your strength" to whatever otherwise good practice, and be the slaves of it. God's people should RULE over their weaknesses and not become adulterers and drunkards. It is not the opposite sex and wine as such that are forbidden. A Christian is not a Roman Catholic priest.
You argued that we are the priest-dom of God and therefore are not allowed to drink wine. What about the offering the PRIESTDOM should bring to God of "strong drink"?
There is NO "appearance of evil" in wine; Evil appears in the heart of man and in the deeds of men. Beauty or evil are in the eye and mind of the beholder and contemplator.
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