Can "Eternal Securitists" KNOW that heaven is their home.

[psalms109:31]

Dead

This body is dead, but we alive inside.

I think it is awesome and a humbling experience.

To have someone puffed up saying I am born of God I am regenerated, and then John saying Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God and anyone who say's they have no sin the truth is not in you.

I know I am not completely born of God because of this dead flesh.

 

[jbh28]

This body is dead, but we alive inside.

I think it is awesome and a humbling experience.

To have someone puffed up saying I am born of God I am regenerated, and then John saying Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God and anyone who say's they have no sin the truth is not in you.

I know I am not completely born of God because of this dead flesh.

Were you unable to address my arguments? Why don't you go back and address those instead of just repeating yourself. I already said that "commits sin" doesn't refer to a singular case.

 

[psalms109:31]

1 John 3:9 (New King James Version)
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


That is not a continue but singular. If he has been in the past born of God then He should not sin. Since he is sinning , it isn't because he wasn't born of God on the inside, because the scripture say's he is. The only thing that hasn't is the body. That is why he is still sinning. If he say's he has no sin then the truth is not in him

 

[jbh28]

1 John 3:9 (New King James Version)
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


That is not a continue but singular. If he has been in the past born of God then He should not sin. Since he is sinning , it isn't because he wasn't born of God on the inside, because the scripture say's he is. The only thing that hasn't is the body. That is why he is still sinning. If he say's he has no sin then the truth is not in him

The Greek term is continuous, not singular.(why translations say practice sinning and not sin in singular) Bring an argument please, or admit you are wrong about the passage. Saying "born of God" is only referring to a non-existent person is pointless because he hasn't been glorified yet.

Remember, EVERY reference in the Bible of born again ALWAYS refers to regeneration. You have yet to show ONE passage that has born of God as a future event. So instead of your childish posts, actually address the issue. The Greek term is in the present, continuous tense. Born of God always refers to regeneration. Now, bring something other than just posting that you disagree.

 

[psalms109:31]

1 John 3:9 (New King James Version)
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[jbh28]

1 John 3:9 (New King James Version)
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Still nothing?


poieō hamartia

poieō is commits, continous. hamartia sin, habitiually sinning.


Please address my many arguments.

 

[psalms109:31]

Mat 1:21 And 1161 she shall bring forth 5088 a son 5207, and 2532 thou shalt call 2564 his 846 name 3686 JESUS 2424: for 1063 he 846 shall save 4982 his 846 people 2992 from 575 their 846 sins 266.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever 3956 is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316 doth 4160 not 3756 commit sin 266; for 3754 his 846 seed 4690 remaineth 3306 in 1722 him 846: and 2532 he cannot 3756 1410 sin 264 , because 3754 he is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316.

 

[jbh28]

Mat 1:21 And 1161 she shall bring forth 5088 a son 5207, and 2532 thou shalt call 2564 his 846 name 3686 JESUS 2424: for 1063 he 846 shall save 4982 his 846 people 2992 from 575 their 846 sins 266.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever 3956 is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316 doth 4160 not 3756 commit sin 266; for 3754 his 846 seed 4690 remaineth 3306 in 1722 him 846: and 2532 he cannot 3756 1410 sin 264 , because 3754 he is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316.

and your point?

and you forgot the number for "commit" it's 4160 and its in the present, continuous tense.

the difference between 266 and 264 is the part of speach. 266 noun, 264 verb.

 

[psalms109:31]

Singular

...and 2532 he cannot 3756 1410 sin 264 , because 3754 he is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316.

 

[jbh28]

...and 2532 he cannot 3756 1410 sin 264 , because 3754 he is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316.

It's about being in the present tense. poieō is in the present tense.(you know, the strongs number you left out) The difference between 264 and 264 is not singular vs plural but noun vs verb.

 

[psalms109:31]

Scripture

I told you I agree with the continual, but also it speaks of he cannot sin singular born of God

 

[jbh28]

I told you I agree with the continual, but also it speaks of he cannot sin singular born of God

if it's continual, then that's what it is talking about. It doesn't say you don't ever commit sin, but that you are not committing(practicing, habitualy) sin.

 

[psalms109:31]

This

Mat 1:21 And 1161 she shall bring forth 5088 a son 5207, and 2532 thou shalt call 2564 his 846 name 3686 JESUS 2424: for 1063 he 846 shall save 4982 his 846 people 2992 from 575 their 846 sins 266.

Plural

Whosoever 3956 is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316 doth 4160 not 3756 commit sin 266; for 3754 his 846 seed 4690 remaineth 3306 in 1722 him 846: and 2532 he cannot 3756 1410 sin 264 , because 3754 he is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316.

singular

 

[jbh28]

Mat 1:21 And 1161 she shall bring forth 5088 a son 5207, and 2532 thou shalt call 2564 his 846 name 3686 JESUS 2424: for 1063 he 846 shall save 4982 his 846 people 2992 from 575 their 846 sins 266.

Plural

Whosoever 3956 is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316 doth 4160 not 3756 commit sin 266; for 3754 his 846 seed 4690 remaineth 3306 in 1722 him 846: and 2532 he cannot 3756 1410 sin 264 , because 3754 he is born 1080 of 1537 God 2316.

singular

As I said, the difference between 266 and 264 is not singular or plural, but a difference between noun(266) and verb(264)

266 sins(noun)

Mat_1:21, Mat_3:6, Mat_9:2, Mat_9:5-6 (2), Mat_26:28, Mar_2:4-5 (3), Mar_2:7, Mar_2:9-10 (2), Luk_1:77, Luk_3:3, Luk_5:20-21 (2), Luk_5:23-24 (2), Luk_7:47-49 (3), Luk_11:4, Luk_24:47, Joh_8:21, Joh_8:24 (2), Joh_9:34, Joh_20:23, Act_2:38, Act_3:19, Act_5:31, Act_10:43, Act_13:38, Act_22:16, Act_26:18, Rom_4:7, Rom_7:5, Rom_11:27, 1Co_15:3, 1Co_15:17, Gal_1:4, Eph_2:1, Col_1:14, Col_2:11, 1Th_2:16, 1Ti_5:22, 1Ti_5:24, 2Ti_3:6, Heb_1:3, Heb_2:17, Heb_5:1, Heb_5:3, Heb_7:27, Heb_8:12, Heb_9:28, Heb_10:2-4 (3), Heb_10:11-12 (2), Heb_10:17, Heb_10:26, Jam_5:15, Jam_5:20, 1Pe_2:24 (2), 1Pe_3:18, 1Pe_4:8, 2Pe_1:9, 1Jo_1:9 (2), 1Jo_2:2, 1Jo_2:12, 1Jo_3:5, 1Jo_4:10, Rev_1:5, Rev_18:4-5 (2)

Verbs are not singular or plural

The second "sin" in the passage is a verb. It can't be a plural or singular.

 

[psalms109:31]

if it's continual, then that's what it is talking about. It doesn't say you don't ever commit sin, but that you are not committing(practicing, habitualy) sin.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I agree with this scripture, and this one


1 John 3:9 (New International Version)

9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

this one and this one

1 John 3:9 (New American Standard Bible)

9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[jbh28]

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I agree with this scripture, and this one


1 John 3:9 (New International Version)

9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

this one and this one

1 John 3:9 (New American Standard Bible)

9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You realize that Scripture says one thing, not two. It's either commit(one time) sin, or committing(habitually)sin. I have given abundant evidence to support(which you agreed) that it is the continual, not the singular. I have given abundant evidence to support that born of God always refers to regeneration, not glorification. The passage isn't speaking of future things. When one is born of God, they will not commit sin, but the present. It's speaking of people living currently. Do you know anybody that is glorified today that never sins?

 

[psalms109:31]

O.K.

O.K. Thank you for your help, this is what debate is for to find the truth. That verse through me for a loop

Bless you!!

 

[jbh28]

O.K. Thank you for your help, this is what debate is for to find the truth. That verse through me for a loop

Bless you!!

Your welcome. Have a good Sunday.

 

[drfuss]

In addition to Calvinism, there are two types of eternal security beliefs.

ES Belief #1 - A True Christian will continue to trust Christ for the rest of his life. If a "Christian now" stops trusting Christ later in life, he was not a True Christian in the first place.

ES Belief #2 - A True Christian may stop trusting Christ later in life, but he will still get to heaven even if he is not trusting Christ when he dies (Stanley’s book entitled "Eternal Security", Chapter 8 entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing"). This belief requires that you believe a person does not have to be trusting Christ when he dies, to go to heaven.

It appears that those on this thread believe ES Belief #1, so I will ignore ES Belief #2 (which contradicts Belief #1 concerning True Christians enduring) for the rest of this discussion.

For Belief #1, the uncertainty as observed by Arminians is "How does an ES Christian know he is a True Christian now, since so many other ES believers who thought they were True Christians, have stopped believing? The SBC has 17 million members who had to be True Christians to join a SBC church; yet only about one third of that number attend SBC churches today.

My SBC church has about a 6000 membership which is regularly updated for transfers and deaths. Yet we only have from 2000 -2400 in attendance each Sunday including children and visitors. While some may have failed to transfer their membership, many of those True Christians (required for membership in our church) simply stopped coming and/or stopped believing.
It is obvious to Arminians that this is a big uncertainty in the ES Belief #1, yet it appears on here that ES Belief #1 Christians can not see it.

Arminians believe a True Christian can stop believing and by doing so, forfeit their salvation.
It is obvious to ES Belief #1 believers that there is a big uncertainty in the Arminian belief, since they believe a True Christian can later stop believing and frofeir their salvation.

The Arminians see the same type of assurance of continued salvation uncertainty in the ES Belief #1 belief as the ES Belief #1 believers see in the Arminian belief.

Most Arminians are no more concerned about forfeiting their salvation than most ES Belief #1 Christians are concerned about not being a True Christian now.

The ES Belief #1 believers see no uncertainty in their own belief because of their trust in Christ and His keeping power. In the same way, the Arminians see no uncertainty in their own belief because of their trust in Christ and His keeping power. The continuing True Christian uncertainty and the forfeit salvation uncertainty, both become certainties by trusting in Christ and His keeping power within both beliefs. Both beliefs use the same assurance scriptures, but interpret them using different terminology.

The differences between the Arminian and the ES Belief #1 beliefs are only a matter of definitions, terminology, and a play on words.