=Revmitchell;1574478]Again you put words in my mouth. I said not such thing. You need to go back and reread it. But at least you admit your childish game and have not been willing to be upfront. This is a debate tactic to win rather than discuss the truth and is immature.
You are the one who brought up traps. I just said I was glad you recognized you are trapped. And you are.
If you consider presenting facts and evidence that refutes your view a trap, so be it.
You could have just said this up front and gave supporting evidence rather than play your childish game. And this is completely false. As I said God Being Lord is not about being 100% obedient. It appears you think no one has God as Lord. That is the reason for our disagreement. Obedience is a result of God being Lord not Lordship itself.
I have been doing nothing but presenting evidence. I have shown a number of great men of God who did not obey God at times yet were saved. Was David being disobedient when he went in to Bathsheba? Don't you think he fully realized he was disobeying and sinning against God? And he continued in sin, he called Uriah home from war, tried to get him drunk so he would go in to his wife to cover his sin. When that didn't work he placed Uriah in the worst part of the battle and commanded his fellow soldiers to be withdrawn so Uriah the brave and faithful soldier would be killed. This was murder. David knew what he was doing and Jesus certainly wasn't the Lord of his life at this time.
Do you not think that David, a prophet of God did not know all of this was sin? Of course he did. He knew he was doing very serious sin but continued in it anyway. Was Jesus Lord of his life when all this was going on?
Samson was never godly. He disobeyed God by choosing a wife from the Philistines. His parents tried to talk him out of it and he wouldn't listen to them, disobeying the 5th commandment repeatedly. He was a gambler, and when he lost a bet he made he killed 30 men to pay the fellows he had lost the bet to. He deserted his wife, he went in to a prostitute.
Would you call that making Jesus Lord of your life?
Yet we know Samson to be saved, he is mentioned in Hebrews 11 called the "Hall of Faith". His great faith is spoken of by the scriptures themselves.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Where you err is not knowing the difference between faith and works. Faith should inspire works, but does not always do so.
You could be a terrible person, a liar, a thief, and adulterer, but you can have faith and trust your godly mother, even though your own behavior is terrible.
Faith in Jesus is relying upon his righteousness, not our own. Jesus never told a person they had to stop sinning to be saved, he told people to come to him to be saved "from" their sins. When you come to Jesus, you come just as you are, a filthy sinner. He saves you, and his righteousness is imputed to your account.
It is true that after saving you Jesus wants us to turn from sin, but that is sanctification, a long process that takes time. A person might smoke or have a drinking problem. They may sincerely trust Jesus to save them from their sins, but they are going to still have problems. It may take them some time to turn from smoking or drinking, and they may not be successful at all. That doesn't take away the fact that Jesus saved them when they came to him for forgiveness.
You do not understand the difference.
