IMPORTANT NOTE:
If you apologize, don't get up and say, "sorry, guys, I screwed up."
Kinda kills the momentum.
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Preaching Language
- Thread starter Shortandy
- Start date
IMPORTANT NOTE:
If you apologize, don't get up and say, "sorry, guys, I screwed up."
Kinda kills the momentum.
If a man led his family out the door because of your use of the word "screwup" in the context that you used it in then it would have only been a matter of time before he left anyway. Some folks are looking for a reason to be offended. He needs to go find him some uptight, legalistic church where he can be unhappy with the rest of the uptight better than everyone else congregation.
No speculation needed. They substitute for nothing.
You may very well be correct here, but on a questionable matter it's better not to make the weak brother stumble.
Also, another reason I don't get too upset by the use of the term "screw" or its variants is because "putting the screws to someone" is also a phrase that can be the root idea, and that phrase is not vulgar.
GBC Pastor
New Member
Thank you rbell! It's been a long day, and I needed that laugh! :thumbs:
Larry you keep throwing around the term "slang" in your posts and that is my reason for bringing up the dictionary. Dumb is not slang, ebonics or anything of the sort. And while I understand that the word "screw" is used in locker-room talk the term "screw-up" isn't. Could I not say I hung a picture on the wall with a screw because some people use that world in their slang? So to continue to label this as slang as opposed to valid english words isn't fair.
And Swaimj I understand that other words could have been used but those words by their most basic of definitions still mean dumb so why not say dumb?You also label this as "questionable." My question is should it be questionable? Do we or do we not as human beings say, do and believe dumb things? Don't human beings "screw-up" and make mistakes? And if those statements are true then shouldn't we excercise some patience towards the people we love when they are dumb and they screw-up? If all of the previous statements are answered by a "yes", as I imagine they would be, then how is what I said "questionable." Its true and right or it is not.
Please don't misunderstand me as I type my words and read too much emotion in to them. I am not trying to be a jerk or walk on the "edge"...I am simply having hard time believing I was wrong and therefore don't feel convicted to apologize. If that conviction comes then I will be the first to open my mouth and say I am sorry.
And Swaimj I understand that other words could have been used but those words by their most basic of definitions still mean dumb so why not say dumb?You also label this as "questionable." My question is should it be questionable? Do we or do we not as human beings say, do and believe dumb things? Don't human beings "screw-up" and make mistakes? And if those statements are true then shouldn't we excercise some patience towards the people we love when they are dumb and they screw-up? If all of the previous statements are answered by a "yes", as I imagine they would be, then how is what I said "questionable." Its true and right or it is not.
Please don't misunderstand me as I type my words and read too much emotion in to them. I am not trying to be a jerk or walk on the "edge"...I am simply having hard time believing I was wrong and therefore don't feel convicted to apologize. If that conviction comes then I will be the first to open my mouth and say I am sorry.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Have you spoken to the man who walked out?
Personaally, I think you made disparaging remarks about both women and men. The word "screw up" does not bother me nearly as much as you spent time that could have been used talking about how husbands ought to treat their wives and the values that married couples ought to have, but you used it to paint men as screw up and women as gold diggers.
Personaally, I think you made disparaging remarks about both women and men. The word "screw up" does not bother me nearly as much as you spent time that could have been used talking about how husbands ought to treat their wives and the values that married couples ought to have, but you used it to paint men as screw up and women as gold diggers.
1. The words of Holy Scripture and the words of a sermon are two different things.
2. Vivid language (like that of Eze 23) is one thing. Language that is profane or coarse is another.
Remember that dictionaries do include slang words. The fact that something is in the dictionary does not qualify it for usage in the pulpit.
Of course not. That's not my biggest concern. I have used the word, though I think it probably unwise to make a habit of it.
I think "screw up" is a valid English phrase, but it also has a slang connotation in the locker room talk.
I just question the wisdom of it given the context. Again, my question is simply this: Isn't there a better way to say that in that context of a Sunday message in a mixed audience? I think the church should be different than a lot of other things in this regard. I think there is a certain decorum in our language that should match the occasion.
I think Swaim is probably right about the guy walking about, that he would have found something soon enough anyway. But perhaps not. But he, along with a couple of us here, show that this is not as cut and dried as perhaps you thought it was.
I would answer by saying it's a matter of propriety, given the context and occasion.
that's not the only measure. Propriety it also a valid concern.
With no offense intended, I have a hard time believing you don't at least see how it is questionable.
BTW, for all my brothers here, I think Phil Johnson had a good message on this type of stuff at the Shepherds Conference a couple of years ago. It would be worth the free membership at the Shepherds website to listen to it. He addresses some much more crass language than this, but I think there is some validity to his principles for all of us.
I don't get the double standard. If words of Scripture are inspired by God, then why aren't these words acceptable to use in a sermon?
Vivid language? Ezekiel 23 uses metaphors that would be considered borderline pornographic in any other context.
It should also be noted that "dumb" is found in some translations such as the NKJV. So Larry forget the dictionary on that one. It is in the Bible.
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Larry I am not offended at all. I have enjoyed our conversation here. But serously I don't believe it is or should be questionable. They are both legitamate words that express truth in the context in which I used them.
Again I am not defending myself for pride or arrogance. If I truly were convicted over this matter I would apologize quickly. Thats why I posted this thread; to gain some insight be open to conviction of The Spirit.
Again I am not defending myself for pride or arrogance. If I truly were convicted over this matter I would apologize quickly. Thats why I posted this thread; to gain some insight be open to conviction of The Spirit.
Twice of people who can't speak, once of idols, once of dogs, and once of donkeys. Not sure that makes a great case for it
... But remember, I have used it. I am not that troubled by that one.Again, I just think it is about propriety. What is the best way to communicate things?
I too have enjoyed the exchange here. No offense at all ...
1 Kings 18:27
"...hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?"
Biblical words and also in the dictionary, but in 60 years I can't recall ever using them from the pulpit. It sure is descriptive of a desperate people, but I am sure I can find better words for public usage.
Just a thought about so-called "inspired" words in the bible.
Cheers,
Jim
"...hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?"
Biblical words and also in the dictionary, but in 60 years I can't recall ever using them from the pulpit. It sure is descriptive of a desperate people, but I am sure I can find better words for public usage.
Just a thought about so-called "inspired" words in the bible.
Cheers,
Jim
Would you use the KJV's words to describe urine in a sermon? What about its connotation for donkey to describe a person's seat?
Again, to elevate our words to that of Holy Writ is not something I'm wild about. While Calvin is correct in that the preaching of the Word of God is the Word of God, our words are not. My words do not carry the authority of the Word of God, nor the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the authorial intent/purpose.
Like Pastor Larry, no one is saying we should tip toe around anything. We just don't have to dive into the gutter in the process.
The Bible frequently uses "earthy" language. While I would think it's wise to keep the culture of one's congregation in mine, by and large I believe that the average congregation is way too uptight about things like this.
When Scripture makes analogies to donkey-sized genitalia, I believe saying "Screw-up" is quite mild in comparison.
In almost all cases, I would not do either. I don't think the pointless use of strong language is helpful. I''m not advocating reckless speech, but I think stronger language in some cases may help emphasize relevant points.