An Overreaction

[DHK]

I am a Bible college and seminary graduate, and I have seriously studied theology for 30 years. This does not mean I know more than others, and I have no desire to try to impress others with any knowledge I might have by God's grace. I understand antinomianism, however.

I am a worm and no man. Jesus is everything and I am nothing.

It must not have done you much good considering your theology,
and also considering that your occupation is a manager.
You are not even in the ministry according to your profile. If you are it is by deception, which wouldn't surprise me considering the way that you filled out your profile.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Technically-speaking, antinomianism is the idea that God's moral law is not instrumental in justification and/or sanctification. It is also the notion that one can have Jesus as Saviour without at the same time bowing to Him as Lord. It is the teaching that salvation by God's grace gives us a license to sin. It is the doctrine that sanctification is optional in the life of a justified human being. I am convinced it is also the teaching that justification/salvation is by faith ALONE.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

I did nothing wrong or deceptive when I filled out my profile. For your information, I am no longer in the ministry because I am in very bad health.

 

[DHK]

Technically-speaking, antinomianism is the idea that God's moral law is not instrumental in justification and/or sanctification. It is also the notion that one can have Jesus as Saviour without at the same time bowing to Him as Lord. It is the teaching that salvation by God's grace gives us a license to sin. It is the doctrine that sanctification is optional in the life of a justified human being. I am convinced it is also the teaching that justification/salvation is by faith ALONE.

And this is precisely why you can't carry on a decent conversation with others on the board. You use theological terms and put definitions to them which are not accurate. They are your own definitions. What you have posted above is not antinomianism.

 

[DHK]

I did nothing wrong or deceptive when I filled out my profile. For your information, I am no longer in the ministry because I am in very bad health.

I am sorry to hear about your health.

However no man is an island unto himself. Even the Bible teaches that.
We all associate with others. The Board requires you to tell us that information, which you have not done so. Instead you have used very vague terms which are meaningless.

For example, you may not like the term "denomination" but we can't please everyone. The term is there to identify what group of people you identify with. Who are they. There is even some examples beside it to help you give your answer:

Denomination(Baptist, Methodist, Catholic...)

But what is your answer? Your answer is a vague "Predenominational" which has no meaning at all. If we examine this term, we can see that you have lied. Cardinal Hosius attests that the Waldenses existed right back to the Apostles. We call that a denomination. The Montanist movement (also referred to as a denomination) appeared on the scene ca. 150 A.D. Tertullian became a Montanist. Now, unless you are over 1900 years old, you must be lying. You were not born before these movements started were you?

Home Church

This is the second field which you are required to fill out. What is your home church? Where is it? What is it called? Its name? Your answer was "House Church." This again, is vague, and not a valid answer. It is not the name of a church. Even the churches that met in houses in the Bible were identified in some way. But you did not identify yourself in any way.

So please don't lie to me and tell me that you filled your profile out properly. You did not. Feel free to go back and edit it, filling it out more accurately as you agreed to when you first registered.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

I filled out the form honestly. I am a predenominational Christian, which means I follow the New Testament alone as the supreme and final authority for my beliefs and practices. It also means that I refuse to be a part of denominational Christendom, which I regard as ecclesiastical Babylon. I worship in a house church, not in a church house. End of story.

 

[DHK]

I filled out the form honestly. I am a predenominational Christian, which means I follow the New Testament alone as the supreme and final authority for my beliefs and practices. It also means that I refuse to be a part of denominational Christendom, which I regard as ecclesiastical Babylon. I worship in a house church, not in a church house. End of story.

No, that is not the end of the story.
You are not predenominational. There is no such thing. And I am in no mood for word games. You are not 1900 plus years old. You did not exist before denominations. I don't need to hear a pack of lies.

Secondly, almost all Baptists believe that the Bible is the supreme and final authority for their beliefs and practices. So what makes you any different than the rest of us, on that account? You interpret it differently, and that is your prerogative. But don't think for one moment, that we believe any different when it comes to that principle.

Thirdly, your conclusion has no basis in logic. If it did it would mean that we would all have to put "no denomination." Technically I agree. I am not a part of a denomination. I belong to an independent Baptist church, which is totally independent from all others--no denominational affiliation, no association, no convention, etc. We are completely independent. Thus I don't really care for the name denomination either. But there is a need for identification as explained in the profile. It is not hard to figure out, and I am sure you can do it.

Fourth, "You worship in a house church." Good. Who do you worship with, and what are your beliefs most in line with? Does your "house church" have a name. Are you located in a place? Do you not have some identification. No, I don't believe you have been honest.

 

[lori4dogs]

I did nothing wrong or deceptive when I filled out my profile. For your information, I am no longer in the ministry because I am in very bad health.

You have been added to my prayer groups intercessory list. We will pray that God healing be upon you and that you can continue to witness to the saving gospel of Jesus. I have been serious health issues as well and know how it effects ministry.

BTW, don't feed into their trap. You obviously believe your beliefs are most in line with the bible or you wouldn't be fellowshiping with the assembly you have chosen. They believe the same about the assembly they have chosen. They simply believe no one else represents biblical Christianity but the assembly they are associated with.

I have followed with great interest you faith journey. I'm glad you are here.

The peace of the Lord be with you my brother in Jesus.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

When I say that I am predenominational, I mean that I strive to base my beliefs and practices upon the New Testament alone. Doing so enables one to return to original or predenominational Christianity. This is the kind of Christianity that existed before the rise of Catholicism and Protestantism. It is the only kind of Christianity that I am interested in as a Christian or disciple of Christ. There is such a thing as predenominational Christianity. It is essentially apostolic Christianity.

I, too, was an independent Baptist pastor, and I claimed that I was neither Catholic nor Protestant. In reality, I was very much like a Protestant in my soteriology and more like the Anabaptists in my ecclesiology.

You have no basis for calling me a liar or deceiver. I filled out your form honestly.

 

[lori4dogs]

No, that is not the end of the story.
You are not predenominational. There is no such thing. And I am in no mood for word games. You are not 1900 plus years old. You did not exist before denominations. I don't need to hear a pack of lies.

Secondly, almost all Baptists believe that the Bible is the supreme and final authority for their beliefs and practices. So what makes you any different than the rest of us, on that account? You interpret it differently, and that is your prerogative. But don't think for one moment, that we believe any different when it comes to that principle.

Thirdly, your conclusion has no basis in logic. If it did it would mean that we would all have to put "no denomination." Technically I agree. I am not a part of a denomination. I belong to an independent Baptist church, which is totally independent from all others--no denominational affiliation, no association, no convention, etc. We are completely independent. Thus I don't really care for the name denomination either. But there is a need for identification as explained in the profile. It is not hard to figure out, and I am sure you can do it.

Fourth, "You worship in a house church." Good. Who do you worship with, and what are your beliefs most in line with? Does your "house church" have a name. Are you located in a place? Do you not have some identification. No, I don't believe you have been honest.

DHK, do you want a list of the names of the people he worships with? No, you want a 'label' and somekind of affiliation.

Regardless of claims to the contrary, IFB is a denomination. Have heard countless IFB's refer to 'their denominatiion' and their 'FB's beliefs' To say that the IFB is anything less than just another denomination of Baptists is just nonsense. No one but yourselves buy it.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

You have been added to my prayer groups intercessory list. We will pray that God healing be upon you and that you can continue to witness to the saving gospel of Jesus. I have been serious health issues as well and know how it effects ministry.

BTW, don't feed into their trap. You obviously believe your beliefs are most in line with the bible or you wouldn't be fellowshiping with the assembly you have chosen. They believe the same about the assembly they have chosen. They simply believe no one else represents biblical Christianity but the assembly they are associated with.

I have followed with great interest you faith journey. I'm glad you are here.

The peace of the Lord be with you my brother in Jesus.

Thank you for showing the love of the Lord Jesus Christ to me! Your kind attitude shows that you truly know and love our Lord and Master.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Faith that works by love (Gal. 5:6) is not the same thing as faith ALONE. The first idea is neither legalistic nor antinomian. The second idea is antinomian.

GE:
Ag nonsense! Here is the man who fought Roman Catholic 'pay your way to salvation' with works and money for virtually the first time since the Apostle Paul, and added the word, 'alone' --- "justified by faith alone", and you accuse him of 'antinomianism'? What are you talking about?

There is no such thing as justification by faith that isn't faith ALONE! Paul said exactly: "faith alone" when he said "by faith WITHOUT WORKS".

Now, if you are honest, do you want to say Gal5:6 cannot and or must not be read understanding Paul for having spoken of not the 'believer's' faith, but of 'faith' which is the "gift of God"-- therefore of faith that at no stage soever - working or resting in God - is man's faith but remains God's faith given to him: "accounted him unto righteousness". So that it may truly be said "You are saved by GRACE ...." ALONE; grace even without 'faith' having manifested in a person's life through works--- like the murderer on the cross?

"FAITH", "being accounted" (Abraham or whomever) "FOR", "righteousness". Not 'faith' as the natural property of the person developed through works as payment for justification --- forgiveness of sins. That was why the pope's bishops denied that justification is nothing than forgiveness of sins, and forgiveness is 'readiness for heaven' or 'glorification'.

 

[DHK]

DHK, do you want a list of the names of the people he worships with? No, you want a 'label' and somekind of affiliation.

Regardless of claims to the contrary, IFB is a denomination. Have heard countless IFB's refer to 'their denominatiion' and their 'FB's beliefs' To say that the IFB is anything less than just another denomination of Baptists is just nonsense. No one but yourselves buy it.

That is why we adhere to the rules and put Baptist or IFB. We don't leave the space blank and arrogantly say: "I am of Christ and belong to no denomination." I may believe that I am of no denomination. But I adhere to the rules, and for practical reasons associate myself with the wider group of Baptists as the board asks me to.

 

[DHK]

DHK, do you want a list of the names of the people he worships with? No, you want a 'label' and somekind of affiliation.

You are right. Every one has some kind of label or affiliation. "Predenominational" doesn't cut it. No one is "before all denominations."
I think even you can see that. There is inter-denominational or even non-denominational, but not pre-denominational. That animal does not exist. However the board would prefer a "denominational" affiliation of some sort, even if it is not considered a denomination by said poster.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

I refuse to allow any human being to lord it over my conscience, because I believe in individual soul liberty and freedom of conscience. When I say that I am a predenominational Christian, I speak the truth before God. To make matters simpler, I say that I am a Christian or disciple of Christ. The bottom line is this---I know and love the Lord Jesus Christ, and He knows and loves me. This is what really matters.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You are right. Every one has some kind of label or affiliation. "Predenominational" doesn't cut it. No one is "before all denominations."
I think even you can see that. There is inter-denominational or even non-denominational, but not pre-denominational. That animal does not exist. However the board would prefer a "denominational" affiliation of some sort, even if it is not considered a denomination by said poster.

GE:
My stuiwer --- ongevraagd in die beurs --- Ek is 'n Dopper sonder toestemming. Overgesetsynde,

for adisciplinedlearner:
Here's my rebuttal, unasked for: I am a Reformed Boer-Church member without permission.

May be of help, I hope, as an example to fill in that space. It cannot harm you, you know.... Without BaptistBoard I would not have been able to blow my own bugle thus.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I refuse to allow any human being to lord it over my conscience, because I believe in individual soul liberty and freedom of conscience. When I say that I am a predenominational Christian, I speak the truth before God. To make matters simpler, I say that I am a Christian or disciple of Christ. The bottom line is this---I know and love the Lord Jesus Christ, and He knows and loves me. This is what really matters.

GE:
I have great respect for Karl Barth. He wrote no less than four 'Credo's'; but read the best of them, 'Dogmatik im Grundriss' 'Dogmatics in outline', where he deals with the Article, 'I believe the Church'. He explains the existence of the Church as being due to the Holy Spirit and His work. He says, that once a believer has come to confess that he believes in the Holy Spirit, he cannot stop there with his confession; he is obliged to carry on and confess his believing the Church, because the Church is the work of the Holy Spirit.

To deny the Church virtually amounts to denying the Holy Spirit (that's me talking). Which is a truth that dispels the rigid definition of the Church being nothing than a local assembling of people avowedly Christians.

A Christian CANNOT be a Christian on his own; face the plain facts!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You don't know what you are talking about. I have never entered into my belief in regard to progressive sanctification, namely, because you are attempting to make progressive sanctification synonymous with justification.

I haven't. That exactly the point. You've attempted to label what I believe as that. This is where the distinction is. I believe God requires us to progressively Sanctify our lives because its part of the gift salvation gives us. It doesn't grant salvation because that has already occured. However, You do not.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

It must not have done you much good considering your theology,
and also considering that your occupation is a manager.
You are not even in the ministry according to your profile. If you are it is by deception, which wouldn't surprise me considering the way that you filled out your profile.

Ah, and the witch hunt starts for those Jesuit spies that hide under your bed. Do you guys ever think you sound a lot like those inquisitors you condemn so much?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

When I say that I am predenominational, I mean that I strive to base my beliefs and practices upon the New Testament alone. Doing so enables one to return to original or predenominational Christianity. This is the kind of Christianity that existed before the rise of Catholicism and Protestantism. It is the only kind of Christianity that I am interested in as a Christian or disciple of Christ. There is such a thing as predenominational Christianity. It is essentially apostolic Christianity.

I, too, was an independent Baptist pastor, and I claimed that I was neither Catholic nor Protestant. In reality, I was very much like a Protestant in my soteriology and more like the Anabaptists in my ecclesiology.

You have no basis for calling me a liar or deceiver. I filled out your form honestly.

Hey that's exactly what DHK and Dr. Walter believes! Since they hold to Baptist churches or a paedo baptist church from the 1st Century having existed with baptist distinctives (including democratic elections etc...). And they have to admit since 1st Century Christians some of which were slave owners that they had to be Southern Baptist. I wonder why the convention didn't appologize for slavery back in the first century after all they condemn their actions or certain member actions during the civil war.