Association of Reformed Baptist Churches

[ReformedBaptist]

I have been a member of an ARBCA church. I do not think they would make TULIP a hill to die on. In our church, we prayed for the ministry of non-reformed brethren and supported non-reformed men and women in missions.

They do have in common the confession the 1689 London Baptist Confession . While they believe this document is a great summary of Biblical Teachings, they do not make it a hill in which to pray, support, and love others who disagree.

If that's the case, then it's pretty sad.

 

[Robert Snow]

It's not a trend. It's the restoration of biblical truth.

I believe it is more of a rejection of biblical truth!

 

[Ruiz]

Why is it bad? I do not think it is a hill to die on. For instance, I love Danny Aiken (sp) of SEBTS. He is a great friend to many in ARBCA, but he is not reformed. The late Dr. Olford was a great friend to many of us in the reformed circles. He, too, was not reformed.

BTW, I have read all of the Downgrade articles (that are known of), which I think you cited before. Remember that Spurgeon himself recounted that there were some who were not reformed that he greatly respected. He specifically mention Wesley. While Spurgeon did hold in high regard reformed theology and believed it was the greatest combatant to the Downgrade, he also respected men who were not reformed and held firmly against the Downgrade (this also includes Dwight Moody).

I, too, have great respect for some men who are not reformed.

BTW, I was a member at Heritage in Owensboro. This is where the Midwest Center for Theological Studies is held, Ted Christman is the founding Pastor, and Dr. Sam Waldron (author of the most widely used commentary on the 1689) is a Pastor. Some of the top theological minds in ARBCA and Reformed Baptists passed through that church to preach and teach. While I cannot speak for everyone in ARBCA or Heritage, I can say my sentiments are not merely mine alone.

 

[gb93433]

We can argue intellectual theology all day long but it is hard to argue a man's theology when we see him put it into practice and the result is godliness. That kind of theology is what he really believes.

Heb. 13:7, "Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith."

James 1:22, "But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. "

 

[Mexdeaf]

We can argue intellectual theology all day long but it is hard to argue a man's theology when we see him put it into practice and the result is godliness. That kind of theology is what he really believes.

Heb. 13:7, "Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith."

James 1:22, "But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. "

Ephesians 4:1- "Therefore I, a prisoner for serving the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling, for you have been called by God."

 

[Bob Alkire]

Why is it bad? I do not think it is a hill to die on. For instance, I love Danny Aiken (sp) of SEBTS. He is a great friend to many in ARBCA, but he is not reformed. The late Dr. Olford was a great friend to many of us in the reformed circles. He, too, was not reformed.

I, too, have great respect for some men who are not reformed.

I recall as a child being raised in a strong Calvinist Church and going to a strong Calvinist seminary and after I left their teachings, we got along. As a child we would have the Baptist, Methodist and Cumberland Presbyterian minister, come in and preach. Also I have spoke in many Calvinistic Churches. We are not enemies, we just don't come to the same conclusion. For me and our Calvinist friends our differences isn't so much in our belief but the mechanics of how God carries it out. But over the last 15 years are so it has turned into a war. What a shame.

 

[Dale-c]

I think hill to die on is not the best way to put it.

We would not allow anyone who did not agree with the London Baptist confession to be an elder at our church.
We would also have limited fellowship with non reformed churches.

I am just not sure what is meant by a "hill to die on"

Hey Ruiz, if you went to Owensboro, did you ever come to the softball tournament?
I am from Edgewood in Anderson.

 

[Ruiz]

I think hill to die on is not the best way to put it.

We would not allow anyone who did not agree with the London Baptist confession to be an elder at our church.
We would also have limited fellowship with non reformed churches.

I am just not sure what is meant by a "hill to die on"

Hey Ruiz, if you went to Owensboro, did you ever come to the softball tournament?
I am from Edgewood in Anderson.

Never went to a softball tournament... but I always went to the BBQ festival. My family (on my Dad's side, mom is from Puerto Rico) is from Owensboro (Davies County) dating all the way back to the Revolutionary War. While I have lived there less than other places, I love the area. I also love Old Hickory BBQ

 

[Dale-c]

Ruiz, check your PM inbox

 

[sag38]

We would not allow anyone who did not agree with the London Baptist confession to be an elder at our church.
We would also have limited fellowship with non reformed churches.

I am just not sure what is meant by a "hill to die on"

Case in point underlined

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Why is it bad? I do not think it is a hill to die on. For instance, I love Danny Aiken (sp) of SEBTS. He is a great friend to many in ARBCA, but he is not reformed. The late Dr. Olford was a great friend to many of us in the reformed circles. He, too, was not reformed.

BTW, I have read all of the Downgrade articles (that are known of), which I think you cited before. Remember that Spurgeon himself recounted that there were some who were not reformed that he greatly respected. He specifically mention Wesley. While Spurgeon did hold in high regard reformed theology and believed it was the greatest combatant to the Downgrade, he also respected men who were not reformed and held firmly against the Downgrade (this also includes Dwight Moody).

I, too, have great respect for some men who are not reformed.

BTW, I was a member at Heritage in Owensboro. This is where the Midwest Center for Theological Studies is held, Ted Christman is the founding Pastor, and Dr. Sam Waldron (author of the most widely used commentary on the 1689) is a Pastor. Some of the top theological minds in ARBCA and Reformed Baptists passed through that church to preach and teach. While I cannot speak for everyone in ARBCA or Heritage, I can say my sentiments are not merely mine alone.

Being willing to die for one piece of God's truth, no matter how others consider it small, is not in any way saying anything about those who are not calvinists.

I would sooner be ripped to shreds than deny one jot or tittle of the Scriptures.

 

[Ruiz]

Being willing to die for one piece of God's truth, no matter how others consider it small, is not in any way saying anything about those who are not calvinists.

I would sooner be ripped to shreds than deny one jot or tittle of the Scriptures.

I love the doctrine and would not deny the doctrine. However, we also recognize that good Christians can disagree. I would never deny the reformed faith. I, also, do believe great and Godly people are outside this realm of theology

 

[Dr. Bob]

I fellowship (attend annual meeting) of the ARBCA. MANY of the ARBCA churches are SBC as well. The Founder's Org of the SBC is desperately trying to return the Convention to its biblical roots (calvinistic doctrine instead of finneyesque error that many wallow in).

Our reformed baptist church (1644 and 1689 London Baptist Confessions) cannot join the ARBCA because we are partially dispensational/partially covenant in theology. But that is a minor issue.

'Calvinism is the Gospel' (in a systematic understanding) said Spurgeon. We pray for the Church in Casper - meeting in different groups and denominations or homes or on a hospital bed. We give 75% of our income to 3rd world missions/evangelism. ALL of the early Baptist missionaries were 5-pointers.

If anyone is interested in links (5 solas, 1689 London Confession) go to our church website for easy access. And while there see what a Reformed Baptist Church looks like.

Dr Bob
www.sovereigngracechurch.com

 

[Dale-c]

We would not allow anyone who did not agree with the London Baptist confession to be an elder at our church.
We would also have limited fellowship with non reformed churches.

I am just not sure what is meant by a "hill to die on"

Case in point underlined

I am not sure I get what you mean.
Not allowing a man who does not agree with the doctrines that a church holds to be a pastor is certainly not making this a hill to die on.

Should a non reformed church call a calvinist as a pastor?

As for fellowshipping with other churches, we can but we are always limited by the extent that we agree.

For instance, we are watching a video series now in Sunday School by R.C. Sproul.
He is a paedobaptist, thus we are limited in the amount of fellowship we can have. However he has many good things to say and we benefit from him greatly.

We have also watched videos from Ravi Zacharias and I don't think he is reformed but I could be mistaken.

maybe a better way to put it is that it is not a hill to kill on.
We won't assume someone is not a Christian if they are not a 5 point calvinist.

 

[gb93433]

'Calvinism is the Gospel' (in a systematic understanding) said Spurgeon.

I am curious how a calvinist would interpret Mt. 22:14?

Mt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Did God make a mistake by calling more than those who were chosen?

 

[Ruiz]

GB,

there are several types of "calling." There is the effectual call and there is a universal call. This context is clearly talking about a universal calling, but the emphasis is also on being chosen.

Effectual calling is seen in verses like Romans 8 where calling is effectual, "And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

Or, in the case of John 6, we see that all those whom He called will come to Him.

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

"

Then he says,

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Thus, there is a calling that is universal. Yet, that type of calling cannot save you. Only an effectual calling as described in John 6 and Romans 8 has that force to it. As well, all this shows that salvation is based upon God's choosing not man's. If God chooses you then you will believe. If God does not choose you then you will not believe.

 

[Robert Snow]

GB,

there are several types of "calling." There is the effectual call and there is a universal call. This context is clearly talking about a universal calling, but the emphasis is also on being chosen.

Is seems the Calvinist makes up their rules as they go along. All, of course, to meet the needs of their theology.

 

[Ruiz]

Is seems the Calvinist makes up their rules as they go along. All, of course, to meet the needs of their theology.

This response is truly not even respectful nor appropriate.

I not only provided the different usage of the word in two different places to show why we have categorized the two, but I also provided two distinct uses from Scripture of the same word where anyone must acknowledge the word is being used in two different ways. BTW, non-calvinists categorize the word "Calling" as well.

Yet, in your statement, you sought to be merely an antagonist. You offered nothing to advance the discussion. IN that regards, it took absolutely no intellectual thought as antagonism is the lowest form of human thought. I provided rationale, research, and thought.

I do not mind intellectual interaction, but I failed to get any. Thus, your post is more of an insult to your own view than to mine.

Next time, offer intellectual rebuttals than an Old Man antagonistic rebuttal. It will serve your side better.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am curious how a calvinist would interpret Mt. 22:14?

Mt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Did God make a mistake by calling more than those who were chosen?

God makes no mistakes.He only needs plan A....no need for any plan B.

An example might be found in Acts 18. The apostle Paul was a calvinist before calvin was born as he was brought to saving faith by a sovereign God.
God instructs Paul to preach in the city 18:9-10. He was to preach to all men there,yet God tells him that he has Much people there. Not all.
We preach to all men everywhere,and in the words of Acts 13:48
as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Gb ,and robert snow.... I am a RB in an Arbca church. It sounds as if you you have some ideas that might not be accurate, or things that trouble you about the grace of God.
I would like to interact with you biblically on this. Let's see if we can reason together on this and help each other learn of the truth of God.
If indeed we are brothers In Christ,we should seek to edify one another in love. If you take the time to write your concerns, I and several of the other men...Bob,Ruiz, and RB fron Ga. will gladly seek to offer a biblical response.

The 1689 Confession is a nice place to start . If you have scriptures you are wondering about,offer them up. I would just ask that you pray first and keep your heart with a godly desire to examine truth from proper gospel motives.

 

[Robert Snow]

This response is truly not even respectful nor appropriate...

It seems appropriate to me. No insult intended. I believe Calvinists pick certain meanings which go along with their belief and ignore the ones that don't.