An 18 month old baby

[Salty]

Correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't the bible teach that which is born of the flesh is flesh and to see or enter the kingdom of God a certain one must be born again or if you will, be born from above. A certain one regardless of being 18 months or 98 years. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

So are you saying an 18 month old baby would go to hell?

 

[annsni]

So are you saying an 18 month old baby would go to hell?

I'd say that he or she would if God doesn't step in. They certainly couldn't get to heaven on their own.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0411.htm :jesus:

 

[Iconoclast]

Define elect.

Scripture defines it for us;
2 Timothy 1:9: "who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began.

Ephesians 1:4-5: "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,"

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


EWF, these are a good sample of the verses,Do you have a follow up question or concern with this teaching.? If you notice in context when this doctrine is spoken of,it is always in the context of great joy and thankfulness on behalf of the believer to God. It is not meant to be divisive,but a comfort.
In this thread I am glad that salvation is of the Lord 100%.
He is able to save and has purposed to save all given to Him by the Father.
In Jn 17 The Lord Jesus Christ declares he has kept those whom the Father has given to Him. I trust Him to do what he has promised to do.

Can I be of anymore help to you? If you have a concern about the doctrines of grace bring it out and i will attempt to offer scriptures for your consideration.:thumbs:

EWF, here is an extended definition from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.R.Downing of SGBCSV.ORG [used by permission]

Quest. 68: What is Divine election?
Ans: Divine election is the free, sovereign and gracious work of God
whereby some have been eternally chosen to obtain salvation.
Eph. 1:3–4. 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in
Christ: 4according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in
love.
Rom. 8:33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is
God that justifieth.
Rom. 11:5–6. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a
remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it
no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of
works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
1 Thess. 1:4–5. 4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power,
and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance…
2 Thess. 2:13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning
chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief
of the truth.
See also: Deut. 4:37; 7:6–7; 10:14–15; Psa. 33:12; Matt. 22:14;
24:22–31; Lk. 18:7; Acts 13:48; Rom. 9:11–13, 16; 11:4–7, 28; 1 Cor.
1:27–31; Eph. 1:11; Col. 3:12–14; 1 Thess. 5:9; 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1;
1 Pet. 1:1–2; 2:8–9; 2 Pet. 1:4–11; Rev. 17:8, 14.
COMMENTARY
There are several types of the election of persons revealed in Scripture:
national, messianic, ministerial and salvific: first, there is the Divine choice of
Israel to be the chosen people of God in a national sense, although only a
small remnant of that nation was truly the spiritual people of God (Cf. Deut.
4:37; 7:6–7; 10:14–15; Psa. 135:4; Isa. 41:8–9; 44:1; 45:4; Rom. 4:11–17;
9:6–9, 23–24; 11:1–6). Israel in its national election was typical of God’s elect
spiritually chosen under the New or Gospel Covenant.
Second, there is the election of the Lord Jesus Christ as the “Elect” of God
and true “Seed of Abraham.” In the choice of Abraham, God chose a nation,
and in that nation, he chose an individual—the Messiah—and in that
individual, he chose a true covenant people—believers (Isa. 42:1–7; Jer.
31:31–34; Luke 23:35; Gal. 3:15–16; Eph. 1:4–5; Heb. 8:8–13; 1 Pet. 2:4–9).
124
Third, there is also an election unto service, as revealed in the choice of
Moses, the Levites, various kings, etc. (Deut. 21:5; 2 Sam. 6:21; 1 Chron.
28:5; Psa. 78:67–68; 105:26; 106:23). This principle is retained in the New
Testament with the Divine call to the gospel ministry (Acts 9:10–16; 13:2–4).
Finally, there is an eternal, personal election unto holiness, which includes
the totality of salvation and derives from the eternal Covenant of Redemption
and Grace, or the believer’s eternal union with Christ (Rom. 8:29–31; 11:5–6;
Acts 13:48; Eph. 1:4–5, 11; 1 Pet. 1:1–2; 2 Pet. 1:10). See Questions 66 and

Finally, there is an eternal, personal election unto holiness, which includes
the totality of salvation and derives from the eternal Covenant of Redemption
and Grace, or the believer’s eternal union with Christ (Rom. 8:29–31; 11:5–6;
Acts 13:48; Eph. 1:4–5, 11; 1 Pet. 1:1–2; 2 Pet. 1:10). See Questions 66 and

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

OK....whats the didderence between elect & saved?

 

[Aaron]

Do you believe if an 18 month old baby will go to heaven if he were to die?


Ok, so the natural progression is the "age of accountability" so go for it.

But the poll is based on an 18 month old!

The 18-month-old is only the outward appearance. What is raised in the Resurrection is not the body of a little child, and what stands before the judgment seat is not a little child.

So the answer is, if the 18-month-old had faith in Christ, then yes. If not, then no.

 

[RAdam]

I'd say that he or she would if God doesn't step in. They certainly couldn't get to heaven on their own.

Exactly. The infant is in just as much need of the righteousness of Christ as an adult.

 

[tinytim]

You all are really twisted if you thing God is sending infants to Hell... .


That's the most horrible idea anyone could have!...
What kind of God do you serve?

I serve a Just God... and punishing a person to eternal torment without them being accountable is not Justice.. it is cruel.

Of course I may be reading you all wrong.. (I hope so)..

Because I can tell you right now, I would run from any church (cult) that taught that!

 

[tinytim]

The 18-month-old is only the outward appearance. What is raised in the Resurrection is not the body of a little child, and what stands before the judgment seat is not a little child.

So the answer is, if the 18-month-old had faith in Christ, then yes. If not, then no.

Scripture please, on the resurrection and Judgment part of your statement!

 

[Jon-Marc]

My wife & I lost an infant .... here is a scripture reading I carry with me everywhere.

Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Genesis 18:25

I almost had another granddaughter, but she was still-born. My daughter carried her nearly 8 months. In fact she had one that was a miscarriage before that. They never figured out why the second one didn't survive.

I can't imagine any greater loss than that of a child you hold in your arms and then lose. She never got the chance to hold her breathing child. She now has four strong and healthy children--thank God!

Yes, we can rely on God to always do right. It is not for us to understand or to judge an infinite God with our finite minds.

 

[Aaron]

Scripture please, on the resurrection and Judgment part of your statement!

1 Cor. 15:37

 

[RAdam]

You all are really twisted if you thing God is sending infants to Hell... .


That's the most horrible idea anyone could have!...
What kind of God do you serve?

I serve a Just God... and punishing a person to eternal torment without them being accountable is not Justice.. it is cruel.

Of course I may be reading you all wrong.. (I hope so)..

Because I can tell you right now, I would run from any church (cult) that taught that!

I didn't say God sends infants to hell. In fact, I've stated that my opinion is that the infants that die end up in heaven.

I'm stating the biblical fact that noone gets into heaven because of anything outside of redemption by Jesus Christ. The infant, the child, the teenager, the adult, the elderly that get to heaven get there by one way and one way only and that is by the work of Jesus Christ. I've also stated the biblical fact that every single member of the human race, be they infants, teenagers, adults, or elderly, are in the same need of the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I almost had another granddaughter, but she was still-born. My daughter carried her nearly 8 months. In fact she had one that was a miscarriage before that. They never figured out why the second one didn't survive.

I can't imagine any greater loss than that of a child you hold in your arms and then lose. She never got the chance to hold her breathing child. She now has four strong and healthy children--thank God!

Yes, we can rely on God to always do right. It is not for us to understand or to judge an infinite God with our finite minds.

My greatest heart ache Jon.....but I will be with that child soon, praise God

 

[percho]

So are you saying an 18 month old baby would go to hell?

No I did not say that about the 18 Month old or the 98 year old.

 

[Iconoclast]

OK....whats the didderence between elect & saved?

Election has already taken place before the world was 2 tim;1:9
Getting saved is the work of the Spirit in giving life to the elect sinner.
The work of Jesus on the cross is applied to the elect sheep at a specific point in time,

 

[John Toppass]

Election has already taken place before the world was 2 tim;1:9
Getting saved is the work of the Spirit in giving life to the elect sinner.
The work of Jesus on the cross is applied to the elect sheep at a specific point in time,

So are you saying salvation of an individual was established before the world was? And that there are people who can never be saved because their salvation was not established before the world was. Even if they want salvation?

 

[RAdam]

People always try to use election to cut people out. There will not be a single person who wants salvation that won't be saved. Election is not exclusive, but inclusive.

 

[Iconoclast]

So are you saying salvation of an individual was established before the world was? And that there are people who can never be saved because their salvation was not established before the world was. Even if they want salvation?

Hello John T,
Thank you for your response. The scripture says that the world is condemned already,[apart from believing in Jesus savingly.Jn3:17-18.
2tim1:9 indicates when God set his love upon the elect.
Jesus dies a covenant death for them....God is not willing that any of the beloved should perish 2pet3:9. He saves everyone of them,,,no more. no less.
It is a complete and definate atonement,
Jesus dies and saves everyone God intends to save. there will be no one who desired God's salvation,on God's terms who is not saved.:thumbsup: God saves all He can save...according to His perfect, holy, just, righteous and loving purpose.

 

[Bob Farnaby]

Fortunately the salvation of an infant is totally dependant on the grace of God, just like that of any other sinner. Whatever my view I know that what God does will be the right and just thing.

Regards
Bob

 

[Peggy]

God is just, but he is also merciful and loving. Babies and innocent children who die are in the arms of Jesus. I could not worship a God who sends babies to Hell. You people who think that babies go to hell are sick, sick, sick. How could you follow a religion that teaches that God's judgement falls on the heads of his innocent children?