Divorce vs Homosexuality

[Berean]

This is an interesting observation made by Dr Russell Moore, dean of the School of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminay in Louisville Ky. Moore stated that both issues of Divorce and Homosexuality are clearly addressed in the Bible, but in one case we speak in very muted and ambiguous terms.
"The reason we say we do that is divorced people are hurting and need grace and mercy." He said! "of course do you think Homosexuals need grace and mercy?" (ABP news Aug. 25)
I don't clearly understand his position whether he was trying to establish a point or sees the direction the Church is going today. I do know that divorced people are looked on much differently today then they were 50 or 60 years ago. divorced people were looked upon as if they had leprosy then.
I have heard it said that in 50 years we will look on homosexuality as we do divorce today.

 

[canadyjd]

I view both divorce and homos*xuality as satanic assaults upon the institution of marriage ordained by God in the Garden of Eden.

Whether this country continues its eithical slide into relative morality or not....will not change the fact that:

1. God hates divorce

2. homos*xuality is viewed by God as an unnatural abomination.

peace to youraying:

 

[Salty]

The first difference is that with divorce, (esp "no-fault divorce) if one person chooses a divorce - it is granted. The spouse is now also divorce without having any say in the matter.

But when a person chooses themselves to be a homsexu@l , the spouse is not (legally) declared a homosexu@l.

 

[TomVols]

Baptists typically have a good hermeneutic vis-a-vis the opposite of heterosexuality. However, the modern Baptist hermeneutic re: divorce is terrible, unScriptural, and based solely on the itching ears of man, a desire to uphold a standard that is no standard at all. So no, I don't think in 50 years we'll have a different hermeneutic on the opposite of heterosexuality since we allegedly do on divorce. However, if our hermeneutic follows that which we employ regarding divorce, we're all in trouble as everything's up for grabs since we play so fast and loose with the Word of God. 5 minutes on Baptist Board shows you that.

 

[Jim1999]

Remember Mary and Joseph when he discovered Mary was with child? All Joseph had to do was declare his divorcement from Mary, or stone her.

Divorce was not always easy in modern society, but the commonality of splits made it a social demand and the laws cooperated.

Both evils have been in society from the beginning. Homosexual practices permeated the Greek society, even to this day men choose their "boys" and it has been accepted by wives.

I am not sure it is the homosexual act in and of itself as much as what it involves and what it generates. I have physical reasons why I oppose homosexuality, but can't discuss it on the BB.

Partly what we need is more premarital counselling and not the rush marriages we are experiencing. We need more sex counselling at the teen stage and not waiting for them to discover unwanted pregnancies and rushed marriages forced on them.

I think the scriptures are clear on both counts. We are ignoring the word, but what have the victims been taught? On one hand we are too hard and on the other hand we soft pedal them. Let's find a balance, even as we teach truthfully what the word actually says.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Jon-Marc]

My experience with divorce has been to be rejected. The deacons in one church rejected me after I divorced my cheating wife. A second church rejected me after my second wife divorced me after realizing that I wasn't perfect like she was.

Christians seem to be able to forgive most anything except divorce.

 

[Salty]

Christians seem to be able to forgive most anything except divorce.

and that would also probably include homsexu@lty.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Is divorce forgiveable? What about homosexuality?

 

[canadyjd]

My experience with divorce has been to be rejected. The deacons in one church rejected me after I divorced my cheating wife. A second church rejected me after my second wife divorced me after realizing that I wasn't perfect like she was.

Christians seem to be able to forgive most anything except divorce.

A biblical case can be made for divorce in certain circumstances... whether people agree with the interpretation of those passages or not.. the passages are there. God still hates divorce, but does allow it in certain circumstances.

OTOH, there is no valid biblical case for the acceptance of homos*xuality. All attempts to make the bible endorse or validate such behavior involves creative interpretation and ignoring clear teaching.

Therefore, I don't see bible believing Christians accepting homos*xuality in the way they can accept divorce in some cases.

And yes, God can/does forgive anything... even divorce... even homos*xuality.

peace to youraying:

 

[Jon-Marc]

and that would also probably include homsexu@lty.

God can and will forgive ANYTHING and ANYONE, but ONLY if we call on Him in repentance and humbleness and ask for His forgiveness and cleansing. Unfortunately, too many people think they can hang onto their old life of sin, change nothing, and still call themselves a Christian.

God does NOT accept ANY sin, whether it be homosexuality, adultery, lying, or whatever. NO one can continue living a sinful life and be saved.

 

[thegospelgeek]

My experience with divorce has been to be rejected. The deacons in one church rejected me after I divorced my cheating wife. A second church rejected me after my second wife divorced me after realizing that I wasn't perfect like she was.

Christians seem to be able to forgive most anything except divorce.

What do you mean by "rejected me"?

 

[Ed B]

Shouldn't practicing homosexuals be treated like any other unrepentant sinner by the Church? Should we set aside homosexuality as more sinful than the cohabitating heterosexual couples who are otherwise faithful attendees (if not members) and are singing in the choir and teaching children's Sunday School classes? Or the thrice divorced brother of the Fundamental Baptist preacher who happens to sing and play the piano very well, and who is allowed to lead worship and sing specials, but can’t have the title “Worship Leader” because….well…he’s been divorced three times and living with a forth woman now.

These instances may or may not be fictional.

Unrepentant sinners should not be ordained by the Church, but they should be welcomed to respectfully attend services and be allowed to hear the preaching of the Gospel.

But what about Communion? The Baptist Churches I have attended have open Communion so all partake as they wish. I realize most of us Baptist only take Communion because we were told to, and we want to be obedient....not because we believe any grace is conveyed through it. Yet we should treat it as if it were the Body and Blood of Christ even if we do not hold to "real presence". How do we screen the unrepentant homosexuals and divorcees from that? Perhaps a questionnaire?

Ed B.... with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Shouldn't practicing homosexuals be treated like any other unrepentant sinner by the Church?

yes!

Should we set aside homosexuality as more sinful than the cohabitating heterosexual couples who are otherwise faithful attendees (if not members) and are singing in the choir and teaching children's Sunday School classes?

There is no difference, however I hope we do not have openly sinful people teaching Sunday school and singing in the choir.

...

Unrepentant sinners should not be ordained by the Church, but they should be welcomed to respectfully attend services and be allowed to hear the preaching of the Gospel.

You are absolutely correct.

But what about Communion? The Baptist Churches I have attended have open Communion so all partake as they wish. I realize most of us Baptist only take Communion because we were told to, and we want to be obedient....not because we believe any grace is conveyed through it. Yet we should treat it as if it were the Body and Blood of Christ even if we do not hold to "real presence". How do we screen the unrepentant homosexuals and divorcees from that? Perhaps a questionnaire?

Ed B.... with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

We can only explain what the scripture says about the matter and allow each to determine if they partake or not.

 

[TomVols]

We can only explain what the scripture says about the matter and allow each to determine if they partake or not.

I think some vigilance should be undertaken by the elder(s) so as to not knowingly allow an unrepentant sinner to come to the table. The Bible speaks of the danger against the unrepentant partaking of the Supper.

27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy way will be guilty of sin against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 So a man should examine himself; in this way he should eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For whoever eats and drinks without recognizing the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30 This is why many are sick and ill among you, and many have fallen asleep.
31 If we were properly evaluating ourselves, we would not be judged,
32 but when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord, so that we may not be condemned with the world.
1 Cor 11:27-32 (HCSB emphasis mine)

I know, I know...that's another discussion.

 

[annsni]

Shouldn't practicing homosexuals be treated like any other unrepentant sinner by the Church? Should we set aside homosexuality as more sinful than the cohabitating heterosexual couples who are otherwise faithful attendees (if not members) and are singing in the choir and teaching children's Sunday School classes? Or the thrice divorced brother of the Fundamental Baptist preacher who happens to sing and play the piano very well, and who is allowed to lead worship and sing specials, but can’t have the title “Worship Leader” because….well…he’s been divorced three times and living with a forth woman now.

These instances may or may not be fictional.

Any church that allows unrepentant, openly sinning individuals in any sort of ministry or leadership is not healthy. Of course we're all sinners but any sin that's open and unrepentant should be cause for action. In your examples, I know not one of them would be allowed to be in ministry in our church although they could attend and they would be clearly told what the Bible has to say about their situation.

Unrepentant sinners should not be ordained by the Church, but they should be welcomed to respectfully attend services and be allowed to hear the preaching of the Gospel.

Amen

But what about Communion? The Baptist Churches I have attended have open Communion so all partake as they wish. I realize most of us Baptist only take Communion because we were told to, and we want to be obedient....not because we believe any grace is conveyed through it. Yet we should treat it as if it were the Body and Blood of Christ even if we do not hold to "real presence". How do we screen the unrepentant homosexuals and divorcees from that? Perhaps a questionnaire?

Ed B.... with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Well, I don't think it is the job of the church to screen individuals for communion. Scripture clearly tells us to examine OURSELVES and not one another.

I was just reading an interesting review of a book about practices of the early church and apparently, there would be the regular part of the service with readings, hymns, prayers, etc. and then all those who were not baptized believers would leave and THEN they would have communion. I thought that was an interesting idea.

 

[thegospelgeek]

I was just reading an interesting review of a book about practices of the early church and apparently, there would be the regular part of the service with readings, hymns, prayers, etc. and then all those who were not baptized believers would leave and THEN they would have communion. I thought that was an interesting idea.

Very much like how we do it.

 

[annsni]

Very much like how we do it.

Can you explain how it plays out in the service? I'm genuinely curious how one would orchestrate it today.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Can you explain how it plays out in the service? I'm genuinely curious how one would orchestrate it today.

The churches in our area that I have been in a communion service with typically have a regular service then announce that we will be taking communion and foot washing for those who wish to partake. Those who do not are free to dismiss if they choose. Usally the Pastor will shake hands at the door with those leaving. After this we begin the communion service. Sometimes a few folks will stay and observe. Some will take part in communion, but pass on foot washing after the communion. No one passes judgement on those who partake in part or all of the service. Although attendance is usally down a bit because people do not wish to partake in the foot washing but are afraid to attend then leave. I don't understand why, but it happens. Some of our churches hold these services one a year, other twice, some quarterly, other monthly. I do know of any who do weekly. I have assisted many time, but will soon be leading a communion service now that I am a Pastor. Makes me a bit nervous because of the seriousness of the occasion.

I hope this is clear. If not ask and I will attempt to clarify.

 

[annsni]

The churches in our area that I have been in a communion service with typically have a regular service then announce that we will be taking communion and foot washing for those who wish to partake. Those who do not are free to dismiss if they choose. Usally the Pastor will shake hands at the door with those leaving. After this we begin the communion service. Sometimes a few folks will stay and observe. Some will take part in communion, but pass on foot washing after the communion. No one passes judgement on those who partake in part or all of the service. Although attendance is usally down a bit because people do not wish to partake in the foot washing but are afraid to attend then leave. I don't understand why, but it happens. Some of our churches hold these services one a year, other twice, some quarterly, other monthly. I do know of any who do weekly. I have assisted many time, but will soon be leading a communion service now that I am a Pastor. Makes me a bit nervous because of the seriousness of the occasion.

I hope this is clear. If not ask and I will attempt to clarify.

Nope - that makes perfect sense. I've just never seen it done so I wanted to know how a church goes about dismissing some and not others. Thanks for explaining!

 

[thegospelgeek]

Nope - that makes perfect sense. I've just never seen it done so I wanted to know how a church goes about dismissing some and not others. Thanks for explaining!

How do others do it? This is the only way I have ever witnessed it.