Would most people consider IFB churches anti-government and anti-modern medicine?

[Phillip]

I use both Inderal and and ace inhibitor. Without the two my blood pressure sky rockets and it took 3 years for the doctor to find the right combination and dosage to get it under control. Plus, a new test that can be preformed only by very new Hewlett Packard EKG machines that measure the resistance to a radio frequency (about 60 Mhz) on all the main vessels in and out of your heart and prints out a list of about 30 mesurements and which are out of line.

It was found by cardiologists in California in studies that 38% of the people who had their blood pressure under control would still die of the same heart problems as if their blood pressure was not under control.

They determined that these new measurements would give an indication of exactly which blood pressure medicine, or major problems that may occur.

In my case, I was out on one measurement which meant that I was still at risk in the 38%, to fix this, I was given the Ace blocker which corrected the measurements.

I still have to take the Inderal because the Ace blocker by itself will not keep the BP down.

I will accept the side effects of less energy due to slower heart rate because my brother (half brother) did not control his blood pressure and died of a heart attack due to BP at the age of 59. This was 4 years ago and I'm now 53 and make sure I keep it under control.

Nobody can tell me that I should stop it. I thank God for the brains he gave us to manufacture medications to control such killers as BP.

Doctors often get a bad rep. and a lot of it is they are simply not miracle workers. For example my dad was a fireman for 30 years and this was before the Scott AirPaks were used to enter buildings. He never smoked but wound up with smoker's type of lung cancer. Luckily he was 88 and had lived a good healthy life, but was gone within a year. It was a choice between killer chemicals and radiation and he opted to risk them to live longer, but sadly the cancer was not stopped, and he actually died of kidney failure which could have been from chemo. The doctors were good about explaining these risks to dad when he started the process and was only given a 35% chance of survival anyway. He chose to fight it, he lost; God wanted him to come home.

 

[Phillip]

Two quick points:
1. There is no such thing as a "natural herb". They will have side effects just like medications, they are hard to the liver and kidneys among other processes in the body. I prefer to have a doctor prescribe a real medication that has been through trial tests by the FDA.
Plus, too many vitimans are very hard on the body. Especially the ones that are not water soluable. Too much vitiman C can change the PH of your blood and other body fluids. Too much vitamin E and A can cause many problems because excess is stored in fat cells. You do NOT need a higher level than that recommended. Those who abuse vitamins and take herbs are no different than taking too many drugs.

Too many antioxidants can also keep the body from functioning properly and prevent it from healing itself by killing the very enzymes sent to kill things like cancer cells that develop in everybodies body every day, but the body kills them so you never know about it. Its the one the body doesn't kill that gets you, then you have to make the choice of treatment with sometimes difficult side-effects or a shorter life. Of course, many cancers, like breast cancer, when found early can be completely cured with surgery and some chemo or radiation to keep it from spreading after the surgery if any cells remain in the body.

Herbs ARE drugs, folks. Many drugs are just as natural as herbs and so is marijuana which will cure headaches and types of pain, but dare we legalize it in pill form for those doctors who will only prescribe it when other items don't work, and believe it or not it does not have many side effects as compared to other pain killers.


2. Most level III or II pain killers contain acetaminiphen which is safe below a certain level. Anything above 2.5 G to 3 G can kill your liver and kidneys in a day. People who take these, such as norco or (what's the name of the main one given, can't remember, same as norco but has 500 mg of acetaminiphen instead of 375 mg like norco its abused a lot), more people are killed from the acetaminiphen if they abuse it (use too much a day) than the narcotic itself.

It makes you wonder if the acetaminiphen is added to prevent abuse. If you do take one of these, do NOT exceed the doctor's dosage or take it all at once in a day. Also, do NOT take anything containing acetaminiphen which includes most cough syrups or anything else used for headaches. If the pain killer doesn't kill you headaches talk to your doctor, you may have something else wrong. Many people don't understand that it is dangerous to mix prescriptions with lots of over-the-counter medications or herbs which can cause the body not to process the chemicals in the medications and cause it to build up in the body.

Too many antioxidants can also keep the body from functioning properly and prevent it from healing itself by killing the very enzymes sent to kill things like cancer cells that develop in everybodies body every day, but the body kills them so you never know about it. Its the one the body doesn't kill that gets you, then you have to make the choice of treatment with sometimes difficult side-effects or a shorter life. Of course, many cancers, like breast cancer, when found early can be completely cured with surgery and some chemo or radiation to keep it from spreading after the surgery if any cells remain in the body.

 

[crazycat]

I think people that don't deal with chronic issues on a day by day status have a hard to realizing the true nature of sin and the mercy God has given us with medicine. I say that as I look down at my swollen deformed wrist and feel the pain of typing with my fingers, and struggling with RA.

 

[Phillip]

I think people that don't deal with chronic issues on a day by day status have a hard to realizing the true nature of sin and the mercy God has given us with medicine. I say that as I look down at my swollen deformed wrist and feel the pain of typing with my fingers, and struggling with RA.

I can only partually relate. I have RA starting in my nuckles, but not yet beyond being quite stiff and painful at the end of the day on a computer doing lots of CAD. (Computer Aided Design.)

My brother, who could play as good as Dino, no joke, had to quit in his 50's because of that. He said it just hurt too bad even for the Sunday Morning Service.

I have Chronic back pain after falling on a slick step and landing on the edge of the cement right across my upper pelvis breaking bones in my back, in my pelvis and tail bones. A paramedic I knew was standing right next to me and he said that when he saw me go down he did not except to see me walk again based on his experience. I went down hard.

Now, I have chronic pain in the lower back. I like the idea of a new body with no pain. But, I also like my grandkids and things on this Earth that exceed my pain levels; so I've never wanted to go before God calls me, but if he does, I'm just not afraid. That's the good thing about being a Christian.

I do use low dosages of pain-killers, but I never have been an addictive personality, so I have never been tempted to abuse them. I take them exactly as the doctor orders and usually take less than I'm allowed.

 

[crazycat]

I can only partually relate. I have RA starting in my nuckles, but not yet beyond being quite stiff and painful at the end of the day on a computer doing lots of CAD. (Computer Aided Design.)

My brother, who could play as good as Dino, no joke, had to quit in his 50's because of that. He said it just hurt too bad even for the Sunday Morning Service.

I have Chronic back pain after falling on a slick step and landing on the edge of the cement right across my upper pelvis breaking bones in my back, in my pelvis and tail bones. A paramedic I knew was standing right next to me and he said that when he saw me go down he did not except to see me walk again based on his experience. I went down hard.

Now, I have chronic pain in the lower back. I like the idea of a new body with no pain. But, I also like my grandkids and things on this Earth that exceed my pain levels; so I've never wanted to go before God calls me, but if he does, I'm just not afraid. That's the good thing about being a Christian.

I do use low dosages of pain-killers, but I never have been an addictive personality, so I have never been tempted to abuse them. I take them exactly as the doctor orders and usually take less than I'm allowed.

I take a monthly IV infusion, methotrexate,(which is a chemo type drug) steroids for the inflammation. Then pain relievers. Every so often I get an idiot that tells me how I can better improve it by supplements witch postion and stuff like that.

 

[Phillip]

Since this is a debate forum at this point, let me ask you to think about a few questions with an open mind, if you will allow...

Is your disease or that held by someone other than you caused by a lack of a particular medicine whether it be, prozac, clindamycin, insulin, Lisinopril, etc?

Do you really believe that our life spans are longer now than ever before, lets be honest with ourselves...to all those who wish to argue this point. Did not people in the Old Testament live to be 969, 930, 175 years old? Did they require these medications to live that long? What was their secret? Furthermore, I'll bet that they had a much higher quality of life because there were no side effects to deal with. I could debate this area all day long, but this is not my main objective, I just wanted to get an idea of what the modern day Baptist is thinking when it comes to these things.

If you want to claim that I am not looking at all sides, I have, I have been on both sides. It is my Biblical conviction that brought me to where I am today. Also, I am not 21 years old, I am 26 and have one beautiful healthy child and a wonderful wife all of which have been taken care of naturally without the use of drugs. Our child was born at home and has not been vaccinated by harmful substances that contain mercury, aluminum, and aborted baby (fetus) cells. If you do not believe me when I say this check it out for yourself! Learn the facts and then come back here and lets talk about it. Talk about an attack against God, how cruel it is to inject your child with poisonous substances that are toxic to the human body at the recommendation of a medical doctor (a mere man in a white coat!). We have taken our guard down too far as Christians and I believe that it is time to think things over again when it comes to medicine and the body!

Where in the world is your backup. For the 106000 that died of drug complications, approximately 150,000,000 (half of America) has been treated with drugs. Makes the number of failures quite small.

Yes, life expectancy is longer than 50 years ago, this is the reason ss keeps raising the average age it pays off full amount.

Most drug side effects come from cancer drugs which are poison anyway, just more poisonous to a fast growing cell. You can opt not to take it and die a painful death from the cancer a lot faster, then if it is caught soon enough your odds of killing the cancer can be 50% depending on the type and how early it is caught.

Then there are the drug abusers, who go to more than one doctor and die of an overdose of acetomeniphen (not the narcotic) in pain killers. That makes up a good portion of that number, a lot more than you would like to see to make your arugment.

Finally, I would not be here today if it was not for Inderal and an Alpha inhibitor. I have had no side effects except maybe a slight loss of energy which I would gladly trade for life so I can see my grandkids grow up.

You have no education on medications, nor do you have any idea on how most of them work, that is obvious from your posts.

How many children have been saved from polio. You don't see the cases like in the past. How many people who survive pneumonia due to a simple antibiotic (I am one of those), I would have died had it not been for antibiotics.

Poison? Vaccines are not poisonous. You may be allergic to eggs or a chemical used to grow the dead or damaged virii used in the vaccine, but if you are alergic to eggs there is a good chance you flu shot will cause a reaction. Then you take Benadryl and it will save your life if it is deadly enough of a reaction to kill you. Benadryl saved my puppy, even, from a distemper shot that he had a reaction too. (I didn't say that I almost became a vet and took all the pre-vet courses, but changed my major to engineering due to money.

You need to study some cellular biology and medical treatment to the human body using medications--and not some conspiracy theory book, some real technology books.

By the way the 106,000 who died of drug problems are matched to the 600,000 that die each year directly attributed to smoking. I would highly suggest outlawing smokes and that would decrease more deaths than you small percentage of drug overdoses, which counts for most of that number and caused by abuse of pain killers and other drugs like benzidiaprines (sp?).

 

[Phillip]

I take a monthly IV infusion, methotrexate,(which is a chemo type drug) steroids for the inflammation. Then pain relievers. Every so often I get an idiot that tells me how I can better improve it by supplements witch postion and stuff like that.

Amen! and thank the Lord he gave us the brains to make medications that can improve the quality of life and often extend it.

Just look at the antibiotics. People used to die of simple bacteria that can now be killed with an antibiotic or a virus that can be stopped by a simple vaccination.

You are lucky to have the medications that you have, although they may not be perfect, I assume life would be horrible without them. Side effects rarely occur if the doctors know what other meds you are taking so they don't get mixed with an interaction problem. AND you take the drugs as prescribed, not like some who toss a few extra pain pills when they are hurting not realizing that most have acetaminiphen in them, or they take the max. of pain medicine and die from taking over the counter drugs with acetaminiphen extra strength. Or they drink and use acetaminiphen as a pain killer for the hang-over. The mixture does wonders to your kidneys and liver.

 

[John Toppass]

I am going to be blunt. After reading what the OP has written, I wonder if he is actually wanting to start a cult instead of a church. I even bet that he would use a natural and not a synthetic poison in his last resort KOOL-AID recipe.

 

[rbell]

THankfully, the OP appears to have cut and run. Good riddance. We don't need that much bad information purveyed on the BB.

 

[John of Japan]

The folks I hang with are neither anti-government or anti modern medicine.

That being said, we do take an anti-sacralist position and we do have ethical problems with some areas of medical research.

By anti-sacralist, I mean we oppose the forcing of worship at the current idol in the public square. But this has been the position of New Testament Christians since the Early Church.

By ethical problems, I mean for example embryonic stem cell research.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I'm getting on this thread late, but I wanted to warn about one group that a few, just a few fundamentalists are getting involved with, and that is the "Hallelujah Diet" folks. They teach that their kind of fasting and dieting can cure a lot of diseases, but they twist Scripture all around to make their points.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I'm getting on this thread late, but I wanted to warn about one group that a few, just a few fundamentalists are getting involved with, and that is the "Hallelujah Diet" folks. They teach that their kind of fasting and dieting can cure a lot of diseases, but they twist Scripture all around to make their points.

We had this happen to one of our people in leadership. They talked in a service asking prayer for 2 people. Both had cancer but one was going to a doctor and the other was "treating in Biblically" by changing her diet.

We had a conversation about biblical diet and they were on the Hallelujah Diet which holds that eating meat is sinful and you can buy root vegetables from a certain group that grow deep in the dirt away from where sin's curse has hit. :BangHead: (their words)

They left the church soon after our conversation. Unfortunately, the woman who was using the diet died of cancer.

 

[John of Japan]

We had this happen to one of our people in leadership. They talked in a service asking prayer for 2 people. Both had cancer but one was going to a doctor and the other was "treating in Biblically" by changing her diet.

We had a conversation about biblical diet and they were on the Hallelujah Diet which holds that eating meat is sinful and you can buy root vegetables from a certain group that grow deep in the dirt away from where sin's curse has hit. :BangHead: (their words)

They left the church soon after our conversation. Unfortunately, the woman who was using the diet died of cancer.

That's very sad. I believe that the HD is doing great harm.

My experience was that a senior missionary got wrapped up in it and then mentioned it to my church in a sermon. I "entreated him as a father" and he has since backed off. But the HD founder used to be a pastor and now does this full time--and he even preaches it in churches, which I believe to be completely un-Biblical. Any preaching about food and drink is about the physical, and church is where we help people spiritually and soulically. (Watchman Nee's term--not that I agree with him in some things.)

 

[Tom Bryant]

That's very sad. I believe that the HD is doing great harm.

My experience was that a senior missionary got wrapped up in it and then mentioned it to my church in a sermon. I "entreated him as a father" and he has since backed off. But the HD founder used to be a pastor and now does this full time--and he even preaches it in churches, which I believe to be completely un-Biblical. Any preaching about food and drink is about the physical, and church is where we help people spiritually and soulically. (Watchman Nee's term--not that I agree with him in some things.)

It's what happens whenever we "go to seed" about any one thing in ministry. Preaching the whole council of God is not just a command but practical advice for keeping balanced.

 

[John of Japan]

It's what happens whenever we "go to seed" about any one thing in ministry. Preaching the whole council of God is not just a command but practical advice for keeping balanced.

Amen. Well said.

 

[abcgrad94]

People who claim "natural" medicine as superior would do well to remember two things.
1. Poison ivy, foxglove, and hemlock are all "natural." That doesn't make them good for human use and consumption, or legal, for that matter.
2. We live in a fallen, sin-cursed world. To believe that somehow the herbs, roots, plants, etc. escaped from this and remain pure and untouched is just silly. Man no longer lives in the Garden of Eden.

That said, I think the OP has left us for a warmer reception elsewhere.

 

[Phillip]

This thread is ridiculous. Go ahead, take all the Vitamin A and E you want and see what happens to the fatty tissue in your liver and take enough C and see what it does to your kidney function. Marijuana is natural. Do we do as California and have doctors that do nothing all day but write scripts for Mary Jane cigarettes?

I do believe there is a legal use for marijuana and that is for people who are on cancer drugs to help keep down the nausea. It is proven to work well for this and has very few side-effects when compared to the chemo therapy the person is getting the side-effects from. That person must be given the drug under a doctor's care who is an expert on chemo and has also taken continuing education classes on the proper use of Marijuana for this purpose only and possibly for pressure in the eyes (Glaucoma) which cannot be brought down other ways, plus the possibility of migraine headaches it is a lot safer than the stuff used that can cause strokes in the vessels of the brain. The medicine should also be given only in pill form and not smoked. Most carcinigens comes from the results of the oxidation of the many chemicals. The THC from Marijuana can be synthesized in a lab or at least purified to the point where the THC is the only resulting reactant chemical and without oxidation the likelihood of sickness is very low.

This is even safer than aspirin. It has long been said that if aspirin were to be placed on the market today, the FDA would turn it down due to the many side-effects such as stomach bleeding, bleeding ulcers, risk of stroke which needs to be evaluated by blood test before given to patients to prevent heart attacks.

Acetameniphen is the closest chemical on the market to its overdose level. One overdose which can be as low as 3 to 3.5 grams depending on liver function can damage the liver permanently requiring a new liver transplant or kidney failure. Yes, there are certain issues, but do you realize that you are taking a MUCH greater risk of getting into your car with your kids and driving them five miles on an interstate highway than you are from the side-effect of medicines.

You are young at 26. If I had the body I had at 26 I could do wonders. When you get to 53 the sin riddled body begins to start its pain and suffering as promised in the Bible, plus the eyes and ears start going mostly requiring reading glasses becaue the lens cannot focus like a youngster. When you get 53, then you come back and tell the board that you still don't believe in taking any kind of medicine.

When you diet and exercise and your blood pressure continues to go up for no known reason, then you will accept those BP medicines or you will wind up in a nursing home having had a stroke in the brain after which you can spend the rest of your life making noises nobody can understand while someone has to change your diaper all because you tried herbs and other natural ingredients to rectify the situation without a trained doctor's help. My brother died of HBP at 59 in his sleep. He never had it treated and I had warned him about it. He was my best friend. I will be glad to see him again because I know where he is today. But, I would like the chance to see my grandchildren grow up first if the Lord allows me to and I think he gave us the most complicated machines we have yet to find in the universe and that is the human brain. We were given the computing power for a reason and part of that must be to help other people by developing medications that can allow pain and other sinful results from being quite so bad. I don't think he intended for us to sit around and play video games all day with that type of processing power. Our brains were given to us on purpose, to help our fellow human beings and follow the Bible's orders.

Wine was prescribed in the Bible for settling the stomach. This is mostly because it will kill a protozoa that lives in the middle east and today can readily be killed by tetracyline (actual experience here brothers and sisters). I had been sick and bleeding internally for four days while bed-fast. I finally decided to have the hotel take me to a doctor. The doctor gave me one shot of tetracycline and I was down eating supper with the rest of the group that very night with no more effects.

Take a ride in your car and risk your family. I would suggest that based entirely on numbers and qty vs. danger ratio that we ought to recall every automobile on the market and walk to where we are going. It is 1000 times safer to ride in a small jet with a good pilot across the country; so drop the numbers of medicine, it just doesn't work and yes, you may have to tolerate some side-effects, but it does not mean the side-effects are permanently harmful except in certain rare cases such as people being allergic to pen VK.

I don't know of any fundamentalist churches that don't allow their members to take medications. Do they quit praying? Absolutely not, if God chooses to heal the patient, all the much better, if not, then he has his reasons. Besides, if there are any churches that are conservative they are here, at the buckle of the Bible belt.

Have a great week! and don't burn your arm on your lawn-mower exhaust, my guess is you will not only need but desperately want some pain killer as fast as possible.

 

[Jim1999]

Isn't moderation the key?

Something like eating. Use smaller plates.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Mexdeaf]

Isn't moderation the key?

Something like eating. Use smaller plates.

Cheers,

Jim

Using smaller plates won't help if you keep making trips back to the 'buffet'.

:laugh:

 

[annsni]

Using smaller plates won't help if you keep making trips back to the 'buffet'.

:laugh:

How about a small plate and a large chain??

 

[Mexdeaf]

How about a small plate and a large chain??

Depends on which chain- Golden Corral or ??