Catholic Taliban?

[Thinkingstuff]

Their history is drenched in the blood of the saints as a "NATION STATE" that ruled over other nations and excommunicated any king that would not do their bidding. No true church of Jesus Christ in the scriptures can be described or characterized as a "NATION STATE" as you fully admit Rome is.

The Taliban charge is nothing in comparison to the charge that history makes against Rome. The Taliban's are but inexperienced children in killing and persecuting in comparison to blood thirsty Rome! Heaven will rejoice when she is totally destroyed!

Rome is not a nation state. The Vatican is a nation state. As for your "No True Church" it flies into the face of Jesus establishing a "Kingdom" for which he is a "king" Daniel 7

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Matthew

preaching the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

And many other scripture besides sounds to me like he's establishing a kingdom or a nation.

And you still haven't proven that the Roman Catholic Church killed people. I'm not saying they didn't. But you haven't given evidence.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Just a Few Bad Apples​

Years ago the Catholic hierarchy would insist that clerical pedophilia involved only a few bad apples and was being blown completely out of proportion.

For the longest time John Paul scornfully denounced the media for “sensationalizing” the issue. He and his cardinals (Ratzinger included) directed more fire at news outlets for publicizing the crimes than at their own clergy for committing them.

Reports released by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (one of the more honest organizations in the Catholic Church) documented the abuse committed in the United States by 4,392 priests against thousands of children between 1950 and 2002.

You're going to have to provide documentation. I won't take your word for it . However following simple math of 4392 priest over 52 years makes it about 84 priest a year. Out of a yearly average of 400,000 priest in existance that makes it about .021 % priest out of all preist are documented abusers. Out of all protestant denominations 838 ministers have abused children annually. Compare that to 84 priest annually according to your numbers. Compared to protestants catholics have only 10 % of abuse cases. Very interesting.

One of every ten priests ordained in 1970 was charged as a pedophile by 2002.

Aproximately, 8,325 Priest were ordained in 1970 So 10% of that number 832 for that year is still a few less than annual average of protestant abuse. And It seems there was a cultural problem that year and not just with catholics. But all across the country.

Another survey commissioned by the US bishops found that among 5,450 complaints of sexual abuse there were charges against at least sixteen bishops. So much for a few bad apples.

or .0029 or .29% still less than 1%. So it seems if you do the math its not as endemic a problem as it is for the protestants.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Rome is not a nation state. The Vatican is a nation state. As for your "No True Church" it flies into the face of Jesus establishing a "Kingdom" for which he is a "king" Daniel 7 Matthew And many other scripture besides sounds to me like he's establishing a kingdom or a nation.

And you still haven't proven that the Roman Catholic Church killed people. I'm not saying they didn't. But you haven't given evidence.

Your devotion to Rome is obvious and has been obvious. You know fully well that I and every other anti-Catholic use "Rome" to be equivilent to the "Vatican" or the Roman Catholic church.

Your response is absurd as Jesus told His church to render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars distinguishing himself as well as His church from any secular nation/state. He told Pilate that his kingdom is not of this world or his servants would fight and His servants were on earth.

The Kingdom of God is not the church as the kingdom existed previous to the building of the church. The church is certainly within the realm of His kingdom as he rules over all and it certainly expresses.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

My position on Rome?

Yes you don't hate it enough.

 

[targus]

Yes you don't hate it enough.

I thought that the "truth is more important than rules" comment was humerous coming from the guy who pretended to be a "Doctor" in order to be taken more seriously.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Your devotion to Rome is obvious and has been obvious. You know fully well that I and every other anti-Catholic use "Rome" to be equivilent to the "Vatican" or the Roman Catholic church.

Your response is absurd as Jesus told His church to render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars distinguishing himself as well as His church from any secular nation/state. He told Pilate that his kingdom is not of this world or his servants would fight and His servants were on earth.

The Kingdom of God is not the church as the kingdom existed previous to the building of the church. The church is certainly within the realm of His kingdom as he rules over all and it certainly expresses.

Sounds like the uneducated trying to describe something they have no idea about.

My response is far from absurd. The absurdity is in your accusation. And even in your review of scripture you leave out the temporal aspect of the Church. Is not the body of Christ his and his kingdom. Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is near and even at hand. Jesus also requested that christians go out and baptising people of all nations making them subject to his kingdom and certainly his kingdom is heavenly yet we are all members of it. And Where I am his body is thus whether it be the United States or the Vatican we are all members of that kingdom even here on earth. Listening to you one would observe that Jesus is only soveriegn over a future heavenly kingdom but no this is not what the scriptures teach. He is soveriegn over all. It is clear from your statement that you hate this group of Christians so much that you must use identifiers that belittle. Rome...Hah! Rome was defeated by Christians. Its no longer applicable. However, you, it seems will attempt to gain a posse by using the hate language of bigoted people in all places as they speak against a group they don't like. Much like Jews are called Kikes by those who don't approve of them.
Shame on you.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I thought that the "truth is more important than rules" comment was humerous coming from the guy who pretended to be a "Doctor" in order to be taken more seriously.

True enough Targus.

 

[Dr. Walter]

You're going to have to provide documentation. I won't take your word for it . However following simple math of 4392 priest over 52 years makes it about 84 priest a year. Out of a yearly average of 400,000 priest in existance that makes it about .021 % priest out of all preist are documented abusers. Out of all protestant denominations 838 ministers have abused children annually. Compare that to 84 priest annually according to your numbers. Compared to protestants catholics have only 10 % of abuse cases. Very interesting.



Aproximately, 8,325 Priest were ordained in 1970 So 10% of that number 832 for that year is still a few less than annual average of protestant abuse. And It seems there was a cultural problem that year and not just with catholics. But all across the country.


or .0029 or .29% still less than 1%. So it seems if you do the math its not as endemic a problem as it is for the protestants.

Try your mathmatical average for the years that Rome has existed in comparison to Protestant (non-historical Baptists) and see what figure you come up with! No, I doubt you are interested in the truth of this characteristic problem that has plagued the Roman clergy from its beginning. The Vatican has had a number of MARRIED popes, bastard pope children running around in the vatican. This is the most corrupt so-called "Church" in history and it is still corrupt.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I thought that the "truth is more important than rules" comment was humerous coming from the guy who pretended to be a "Doctor" in order to be taken more seriously.

Now your adding lying to your list. I never at any time claimed any degree of any sort. That was simply a handle or web title just like there are many on this forum with handles that do not reflect any reality. Why stoop to lying?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Try your mathmatical average for the years that Rome has existed in comparison to Protestant (non-historical Baptists) and see what figure you come up with! No, I doubt you are interested in the truth of this characteristic problem that has plagued the Roman clergy from its beginning. The Vatican has had a number of MARRIED popes, bastard pope children running around in the vatican. This is the most corrupt so-called "Church" in history and it is still corrupt.

You've exemplified the problem of not knowing history. Since the Catholic inseption, so to speak, they have not always had a celebate clergy. The fact is celebacy wasn't required until the 2nd millenia. And Also you fail to understand that this so called "Characteristic Problem" is common among humanity whether Catholic or not. And as far as I know most churches have corrupt aspects in their history.

 

[targus]

That was simply a handle or web title just like there are many on this forum with handles that do not reflect any reality.

Uh huh.

Yup.

Sure thing.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Sounds like the uneducated trying to describe something they have no idea about.

My response is far from absurd. The absurdity is in your accusation. And even in your review of scripture you leave out the temporal aspect of the Church. Is not the body of Christ his and his kingdom. Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is near and even at hand. Jesus also requested that christians go out and baptising people of all nations making them subject to his kingdom and certainly his kingdom is heavenly yet we are all members of it. And Where I am his body is thus whether it be the United States or the Vatican we are all members of that kingdom even here on earth. Listening to you one would observe that Jesus is only soveriegn over a future heavenly kingdom but no this is not what the scriptures teach. He is soveriegn over all. It is clear from your statement that you hate this group of Christians so much that you must use identifiers that belittle. Rome...Hah! Rome was defeated by Christians. Its no longer applicable. However, you, it seems will attempt to gain a posse by using the hate language of bigoted people in all places as they speak against a group they don't like. Much like Jews are called Kikes by those who don't approve of them.
Shame on you.

You talk about ignorance on display and pure mental gynastics, this response takes the cake. By your kind of reasoning black can be proven to be white and Catholic's can be proven to be angels. You are a Roman Catholic in mind and heart and in spirit and cover yourself under the pretense of "Baptist" just to hide your Roman Catholic devotion. Don't bother answering.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You talk about ignorance on display and pure mental gynastics, this response takes the cake. By your kind of reasoning black can be proven to be white and Catholic's can be proven to be angels. You are a Roman Catholic in mind and heart and in spirit and cover yourself under the pretense of "Baptist" just to hide your Roman Catholic devotion. Don't bother answering.

No gymnastics at all. You are sure as anti-catholic as any KKK member. You prove your biogotry. I on the other hand am not bigoted I accept Catholics are Christian as are baptist and presbyterians etc... Thats a big difference from being Catholic myself. You, I believe, hold a very narrow ungraceful view of Christianity that is an extreme view purported by a minority of fundalmentalist (and not in a good way such as fundamental beliefs but the modern view which equates taliban with a "fundalmentalism") who can be listed with KJVO 'ism and only wearing suites to sunday service and only hold to a pretrib rapture eschatology with no participation in modern hymns and women not cutting their hair. Anyway you get the picture.

 

[targus]

You talk about ignorance on display and pure mental gynastics, this response takes the cake. By your kind of reasoning black can be proven to be white and Catholic's can be proven to be angels. You are a Roman Catholic in mind and heart and in spirit and cover yourself under the pretense of "Baptist" just to hide your Roman Catholic devotion. Don't bother answering.

So because someone uses your figures to show that the pedophile depravity is not the exclusive domain of Catholics - in your mind that makes him a "Catholic in mind and heart" and a pretend Baptist?

Brother, your heart is too hardened and your spirit is too dark.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh....LOL.... I see Wally's back & as usually teamed up with Mitch Im thinkin. And of course Thinkingstuff is in the thick of all the madness....LOL. Oh heck, nothing really changes does it around the Twilight Zone. Honest to....

 

[DHK]

And you still haven't proven that the Roman Catholic Church killed people. I'm not saying they didn't. But you haven't given evidence.

No one will take anything you say on this board with any note of integrity or seriousness when you make a statement like this.
Statements like this are akin to "The holocaust never existed."

The denial of history is absurd. The blood of the martyrs throughout history is on the RCC hands and all on this board know that all too well.
The Crusades against the Albigeneses--peace-loving Christians.
The Crusades against the Muslims (they are still people, and that is not the way to win them). The deaths of these peoples lies directly upon the Pope.
The horrible Inquisitions: Spanish, Indian at Goa, and many others where innocent people died.
The direct persecution of the Anabaptists who were killed simply because they baptized Catholic converts.
The various popes were behind the monarchy in England who pushed such queens as Mary Tudor (Bloody Mary) to slaughter all who were not Catholic. Yes, this is instigated by the RCC, and the blood of the innocents will be upon the Pope's hands.

Your statement has as much validity as stating that the holocaust never took place. IMO you should stop posting. Your posts don't carry any weight. You have lost all credibility.

 

[DHK]

I seriously think the Vatican has a concordat with the Philippenes.

What you think is of no consequence here.
Don't make statements you can't back up.
The statements that the OP made can be backed up.
The Catholic Bishops in the Philippines acted like Taliban which contradictory to Christian principles. The secular world compares the Catholic Bishops to the Taliban calling them Catholic Taliban. I agree with their assessment.

 

[targus]

The secular world compares the Catholic Bishops to the Taliban calling them Catholic Taliban. I agree with their assessment.

So one questionable writer - Mitch Kowalski - is the "secular world"?

Nothing like a little hyperbole.

What you think is of no consequence here.

Don't make statements you can't back up.

The statements that the OP made can't be backed up.

Your church demanding oaths for membership is acting like Taliban which is contradictory to Christian principles.

Where does Scripture provide an example of giving an oath of perfection in order to join a church?

Why does your church add to Scripture - demanding works for salvation?

That is worse than the Taliban.

That is heresay.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No one will take anything you say on this board with any note of integrity or seriousness when you make a statement like this.
Statements like this are akin to "The holocaust never existed."

The denial of history is absurd. The blood of the martyrs throughout history is on the RCC hands and all on this board know that all too well.
The Crusades against the Albigeneses--peace-loving Christians.
The Crusades against the Muslims (they are still people, and that is not the way to win them). The deaths of these peoples lies directly upon the Pope.
The horrible Inquisitions: Spanish, Indian at Goa, and many others where innocent people died.
The direct persecution of the Anabaptists who were killed simply because they baptized Catholic converts.
The various popes were behind the monarchy in England who pushed such queens as Mary Tudor (Bloody Mary) to slaughter all who were not Catholic. Yes, this is instigated by the RCC, and the blood of the innocents will be upon the Pope's hands.

Your statement has as much validity as stating that the holocaust never took place. IMO you should stop posting. Your posts don't carry any weight. You have lost all credibility.

Well, there is a distinction that is being missed. The catholic Church condemned people that much is true. I don't deny it. However, it was the civil authorities that actually killed people. Its kind of like anti-semitism. I never understood it. The Jews didn't actually kill Jesus. They condemned him to die but it was the Romans who carried it out. However, it was the Jews that were blamed for it. Well, the inquisition worked in this method. And strangely enough in some instances the Inquisition worked against killing people. But I think the distinction is often missed. Kind of like John Calvin condemned Michael Sevetus but it was the Geneva authorities that burned him at the stake. So whether people take me seriously or not that is the way it happened. I think however people will see you're lacking in your history sir.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What you think is of no consequence here.
Don't make statements you can't back up.
The statements that the OP made can be backed up.
The Catholic Bishops in the Philippines acted like Taliban which contradictory to Christian principles. The secular world compares the Catholic Bishops to the Taliban calling them Catholic Taliban. I agree with their assessment.

There is actually an interesting article from the NY times regarding the Philippines "indirect concordat" and its through already established concordats with Spain and the United States that indirectly are attributed to the Philippines. More in formation can be accessed here http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm See, so I wasn't entirely off.

However, until I see catholic priest beheading media members, selling opium, flying planes into american buildings I will never compare the catholic church to the taliban. Its just plain silly.