Mohler and Yoga: Your Take

[freeatlast]

I totally agree with Mohler on this. This is not some small issue today. Most who claim to be Christian today are caught up in many forms of false religious activities cloaked with Christian words so as to trap those involved by opening the door for satanic attacks.

 

[nodak]

Totally agree with Mohler. In fact, in light of Wade Burleson's ridicule of Mohler for his stand, I will no longer read Burleson's blog.

Yeah, it is important.

Let me phrase it this way:

A Navajo sing involves circle dancing, chanting, often sand paintings and other ritual acts. Now, that circular dancing and chanting is good cardio.

So should Christians participate? Of course not.

I know a young woman that thought she could do a little yoga to reduce stress and get in shape. Then a little "Christian" meditating to clear her mind.

She cleared it right into Buddha worship, made shipwreck of her faith in Jesus, and has spent years slowly overcoming it and getting back right with God. She will live forever with bad choices made during her time isolated from the Lord.

Scripture is soooooo clear that we avoid all forms of idolatry. We are to be a separated people from all that comes from worship of any but the one true God.

Either "Jesus is Lord" or He isn't. No Jesus plus a little from this religion and a little from that.

 

[Steven2006]

Yoga can be just exercise, but it can also be much more.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Yoga can be just exercise, but it can also be much more.

If it is just exercise, is it yoga anymore?

 

[Steven2006]

If it is just exercise, is it yoga anymore?

For many people yes just stretching and burning calories, nothing more. But of course one should always be cautious it wouldn't become more than that.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Praise God that Al is speaking out on this. May the Lord grant repentance to the Churches and Christians practicing Paganism.

 

[dwmoeller1]

For many people yes just stretching and burning calories, nothing more. But of course one should always be cautious it wouldn't become more than that.

I am still not clear on your answer. Is something that is just stretching and burning calories really yoga, or just some form of exercise that is maybe derived from yoga forms?

 

[Steven2006]

I am still not clear on your answer. Is something that is just stretching and burning calories still "yoga", or just some form of exercise that is derived from yoga forms?

I don't know if a yoga enthusiast would agree, but I think people consider it yoga if they are doing yoga poses. What else would you call it? I guess you can rename it.

 

[dwmoeller1]

I don't know if a yoga enthusiast would agree, but I think people consider it yoga if they are doing yoga poses. What else would you call it? I guess you can rename it.

Well historically, just doing the poses was not yoga. That some have appropriated the word is true. But is such an appropriation accurate on a meaningful level? IOW, is it accurate to say that the poses are not really yoga (regardless of what some may call it) as Mohler claims?

It seems that to claim yoga can be simply exercise and nothing more is to ignore the history of yoga, what the word means to its typical practicer, etc. For instance, Merriam Webster definition doesn't allow for yoga to be simply exercise. So, it would seem that those who use "yoga" to refer to mere exercise are misappropriating the word. Kinda like say prayer can be a person just communing with the god within themselves. Sure, some may use it like that, but does that very atypical usage then become an acceptable definition simply because some people use it that way?

At the very least, Mohler seems to stand on solid ground when he makes the distinction he does. It may be a distinction not recognized by some, yet still very valid when considering the subject as a whole. And if his distinction is sound, then his overall point is sound as well. Those who would quibble that yoga can just be exercise are using the word totally outside of its historical and philosophical foundation and thus bear the burden of "proof" to demonstrate such is a valid use of the word.


A simple test: Go to a bookstore and see how many books on yoga show the exercises apart from any philosophical moorings. I would be extremely surprised if you could find one. Even less likely than finding a book on doing martial arts that doesn't spend some time on the concept of "chi"...which is pretty unlikely to begin with. I am going out later today so I will try this experiment myself. In the meantime, you all can lay wagers on how many books on yoga don't include some spiritual/philosophical aspect.

 

[Steven2006]

Well historically, just doing the poses was not yoga. That some have appropriated the word is true. But is such an appropriation accurate on a meaningful level? IOW, is it accurate to say that the poses are not really yoga (regardless of what some may call it) as Mohler claims?

It seems that to claim yoga can be simply exercise and nothing more is to ignore the history of yoga, what the word means to its typical practicer, etc. For instance, Merriam Webster definition doesn't allow for yoga to be simply exercise. So, it would seem that those who use "yoga" to refer to mere exercise are misappropriating the word. Kinda like say prayer can be a person just communing with the god within themselves. Sure, some may use it like that, but does that very atypical usage then become an acceptable definition simply because some people use it that way?

At the very least, Mohler seems to stand on solid ground when he makes the distinction he does. It may be a distinction not recognized by some, yet still very valid when considering the subject as a whole. And if his distinction is sound, then his overall point is sound as well. Those who would quibble that yoga can just be exercise are using the word totally outside of its historical and philosophical foundation and thus bear the burden of "proof" to demonstrate such is a valid use of the word.

I am not disputing nor discussing the history of yoga. I am just stating what people call it. Again I ask what would you call it if someone does yoga poses strictly for stretching and burning calories? If you asked one hundred people what they would call it how many wouldn't just say, yoga?

 

[Jerome]

Merriam-Webster definition 2 of yoga:

a system of exercises for attaining bodily or mental control and well-being

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Merriam-Webster definition 2 of yoga:

Denotative meanings do not necessarily clarify this controversy.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I disagree with Mohler on a lot and I'm not sure on this one. The first I read about yoga and Christians was when I read about karate and Christians and I was one hundred per cent against the mix. Today about 30 or so years later, I met many a good Christian who is into karate and seem to be fine Christians. I believe our fine friend here on the board John is into karate. I don't believe he would practice the so called religious side of it and if that is true I believe one could use the work out part of yoga with out all the meditation or the religious side of it. But I've never done it so I don't know.

I'm one hundred per cent against tattoos or body piercing, so I don't do it, I wouldn't be happy if my grown children did it but they are over 21, so it is their choice. As far as anyone else, it like smoking, it might look bad to me but it isn't any of my business. I can use a Scripture or two to say I'm correct, but at heart I don't know if I'm not twisting Scripture to do that.

I'm not legalistic so I'll allow the other person make the call on them self.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I have yet to see a Yogi teacher who preached Hinduism. I suppose there are some, but not at the senior center I used when I am at home. The word Yogi has come to mean a particular set of exercises. In face, many of the exercises are the same as in palates and I've not seen anyone criticize palates.

 

[Winman]

What do those who teach Yoga say of themselves?

What is Yoga?

The Roots of Yoga

The word Yoga comes from the Sanskrit word "Yuj" meaning to yoke, join or unite. This implies joining or integrating all aspects of the individual - body with mind and mind with soul - to achieve a happy, balanced and useful life, and spiritually, uniting the individual with the supreme.

In India, Yoga is considered one of the six branches of classical philosophy and is referred to throughout the Vedas - ancient Indian scriptures and amongst the oldest texts in existence.The Upanishads are also broadly philosophical treatises which postdate the Vedas and deal with the nature of the "soul" and universe.

However, the origins of yoga are believed to be much older than that, stemming from the oral traditions of Yogis, where knowledge of Yoga was handed down from Guru (spiritual teacher) to Sisya (spiritual student) all the way back to the originators of Yoga, "the Rishis," who first began investigation into the nature of reality and man's inner world.

Legend has it that knowledge of Yoga was first passed by Lord Shiva to his wife Parvati and from there into the lives of men.

The Aim of Yoga

According to the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the ultimate aim of Yoga is to reach "Kaivalya" (emancipation or ultimate freedom). This is the experience of one's innermost being or "soul" (the Purusa). Then one becomes free of chains of cause and effect (Karma) which tie us to continual reincarnation. In Kaivalya one is said to exist in peace and tranquillity, having attained absolute knowledge of the difference between the spiritual which is timeless, unchanging and free of sorrows, and the material which is not.

This is considered desirable as life is analysed as ultimately full of sorrows and pain- even pleasure and joy leave pain and loss when they have gone as nothing in the material world is permanent.

Yoga is therefore a spiritual quest. However, along the path of yoga, the aspirant also gains health, happiness, tranquillity and knowledge which are indicators of progress and an encouragement to continue their practice. Buddhism and other Eastern spiritual traditions use many techniques derived from Yoga.

The Paths of Yoga

There are said to be 4 main paths (Margas), according to the Bhagavad Gita, by which to reach the ultimate goal of Yoga - "Kaivalya." There is the path of Knowledge (Jnana Marga) in which one learns to discriminate between what is real and what is illusory, the path of selfless work (Karma marga), the path of devotion (Bhakti Marga) and the path of control of the mind (Yoga Marga) where all the activities of the mind and consciousness are studied and brought under control. From these have come the various paths of yoga which can be followed.

Raja yoga involves mastery of the mind and senses in Samadhi; essentially the advanced aspects of Patanjali's astanga yoga.
Hatha yoga is the yoga of the will which involves cultivating ones energy to arouse Kundalini primarily by means of asana and pranayama.
Mantra yoga involves reciting sacred syllables to reach perfection.
Laya yoga involves absorption in god to experience ultimate bliss.
Bhakti yoga requires absolute devotion to god to achieve the ultimate goal.
Karma yoga achieves this through selfless work without thought of personal reward.
Jnana yoga is the yoga of knowledge cultivating the discrimination between spiritual reality and the illusion of the material world.
It must be realised that there are no clear cut boundaries between these various paths and all draw on the practices and philosophy of the others; effectively all paths have the same goal and "tread the same terrain." They are different views of the same topic.

Sounds like more than exercise to me.

 

[dwmoeller1]

I am not disputing nor discussing the history of yoga. I am just stating what people call it. Again I ask what would you call it if someone does yoga poses strictly for stretching and burning calories? If you asked one hundred people what they would call it how many wouldn't just say, yoga?

How many of them would say that they do it for relaxation and meditation as well?

Went to the bookstore. Looked at about a 20 books. Even the books that concentrated almost solely on the poses and stretching still all included concepts of meditation, spiritual well-being and relaxation - clearing the mind. Not one of the books I saw taught yoga as a purely physical exercise (and I was purposefully looking for one that did). As Yoga For Dummies put it - the goal of all forms of yoga is enlightenment, some forms just choose to reach this through physical movement and exercise.

So what do you call exercise that just happens to use some yoga poses? Stretching or exercise. The fact that people like to attack labels to what they do (I don't just exercise, I do yoga, or aerobics, or XYZ) doesn't really change the basic meaning of yoga. It just represents a confusion of labels. Its, at best, the non-standard meaning of yoga. If we stick with the standard meaning, the one the vast majority of yoga teachers seem to recognize, then Mohler's distinction seems sound. Would I quibble with a person who thought the movements themselves were "yoga"? No, let them call it what they want. However, given the context of Mohler's statements, his distinction is quite sound IMO.

 

[Steven2006]

What do those who teach Yoga say of themselves?



Sounds like more than exercise to me.

We have Wii fitness type game that my wife will occasionally do the yoga exercises. It has some yoga poses that you can do on a balancing board. It tells you how balanced you are (gauging muscle coordination) and how many calories you burned.

Sounds like exercise to me.

 

[dwmoeller1]

I have yet to see a Yogi teacher who preached Hinduism. I suppose there are some, but not at the senior center I used when I am at home. The word Yogi has come to mean a particular set of exercises. In face, many of the exercises are the same as in palates and I've not seen anyone criticize palates.

Sure, very few are going to teach anything one would recognize as Hinduism. But let me ask you, do they teach the movements purely as exercise, or are concepts of relaxation, clearing the mind, visualization or meditation included in the classes?

 

[Steven2006]

How many of them would say that they do it for relaxation and meditation as well?

.

You completely missed my point.

I said some people use it exclusively for exercise. You said, well that isn't yoga then. I said what would you call that, or anyone else if asked for that matter.

You still haven't answered my question. If someone does yoga poses for stretching and burning calories only what would you call it?

 

[dwmoeller1]

You completely missed my point.

I said some people use it exclusively for exercise. You said, well that isn't yoga then. I said what would you call that, or anyone else if asked for that matter.

You still haven't answered my question. If someone does yoga poses for stretching and burning calories only what would you call it?

I did answer it but I guess it got lost in the rest of what I said.

I would call it just stretching and exercise. Would others maybe still call it yoga? Yep. Does the make it yoga? Nope. Or at least, its is a distinctly non-standard application of the word. You point out that some would call the pure exercise yoga. I don't disagree, I merely point out that calling it that doesn't make it yoga.

Not everyone would recognize the distinction Mohler makes, but those who are yoga "experts" certainly would. In short, while some might not recognize the distinction, Mohler's distinction seems to be sound.