Women are called to be keepers at home, loving their husbands and children.
Husbands are called to provide for their families, love their wives and children.
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Do you get tired of Homeschool Critics?
- Thread starter Thinkingstuff
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Women are called to be keepers at home, loving their husbands and children.
Husbands are called to provide for their families, love their wives and children.
So just because some women put their all into their children and have a time of adjustment after the children have left the home, they should instead let their heart stray before that? Yeah - I've seen those families. The kids are a wreck. But then I've seen the families where mom stayed home and as the children grew, she took on more and more ministry until the children leave and she is now free to pursue ministry more full time.
My husband and I were talking about this the other day. I have 5.5 more years of homeschooling ahead of me if we put our kids in the high school and 9.5 years if we don't. I told him I don't want him to expect that I will then be looking for a full time job because at that point, I want to have more ministry instead. I want to teach the younger women and encourage the other older women. I want to have a weekly "tea" in my home - do ministry outside, maybe in the nursing home or with the crisis pregnancy center. THAT is what God calls me to - not a job.
I'm not speaking against women working because I also work. However, my primary ministry is in the home. God didn't call me to work - He called me to my family and to ministry. I work to bring in extra money.
Why should roles be fluid when the Bible says the opposite?
The Titus passage speaks to a time in which that was customary. It no longer is.
I'm definitely not saying that mothers (or fathers) should "let their heart stray" at all. I'm also not saying that all homemaking women have this issue, but it does come out of an idolatrous view of their children. The last thing I would ever suggest is for parents to neglect their children. That is a horrific occurrence, and in our culture, is far more common for men. But there are, for many people, other ways of running a household and tending to children than simply Dad working and Mom staying home.
But it's not healthy nor is it necessary to have no ministry other than raising children. It doesn't have to be a career. Holding gatherings for other women is great. So is whatever work you're doing. If those are the things you're called to do, then that is wonderful. Do it with all your heart. It doesn't have to be a job. Though for many people, hopefully most Christians, a career is a basis for ministry. Mine certainly is. I have a part-time music job in a church, but I also teach music to elementary children full-time. That is a huge basis for ministry.
Obviously someone has to make money. But that can happen many different ways.
OK - So toss Titus. What else do we toss??
What other way? What other way does God prescribe?? As for the idolatry of children, I'd absolutely say without a doubt that for every case of a parent creating an idol in their children are 50 families who do the absolute opposite and make themselves the idol. I actively work against that in my ministry.
Yes, and you are a man, are you not? I do not know of one woman who only has her children as her ministry and I know MANY women. But even if her children are her only ministry, is she not just fulfilling God's calling on her life? Who are you to say that she should be doing something else? Is that not between God, her husband and herself?
I'm sorry but in the American culture (and from what I understand, MANY other cultures as well), women have turned their hearts from their families, husbands have turned their hearts from their families and children are suffering greatly. When people follow the Biblical model (which apparently makes a difference according to studies as well), families benefit - and thus others benefit as well.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Jaigner, just who did God give children too? The Nanny? The school teacher? The daycare worker? Ummm, NO!
God gave children to parents. Period. No one is better qualified to care for, raise, or educate a child than his or her parents (with the few exceptions of those parents who are filled with Satan and thus become abusers). God gave children specifically to their parents and called them a "heritage of the Lord".
I was a daycare worker in my younger days (before my own children came along) and I was a great one. I was the person all the parents wanted watching their kids. I was the one the parents came to, to find out what had gone on with their children during the day and I was the first person the children headed for when somehting was "wrong". But you know what? No matter how good *I* was, there wasn't a child there who had rather have been with me, than with their own mother.
Mothers have abandoned their second calling from God (their first being to their husbands) and Fathers have allowed it. And why? For "personal fullfillment"? Money? "Ministry"? Let me tell you what scripture says about ministry: It begins at HOME. If you can't do it there, you have no business doing it elsewhere!
God gave children to parents. Period. No one is better qualified to care for, raise, or educate a child than his or her parents (with the few exceptions of those parents who are filled with Satan and thus become abusers). God gave children specifically to their parents and called them a "heritage of the Lord".
I was a daycare worker in my younger days (before my own children came along) and I was a great one. I was the person all the parents wanted watching their kids. I was the one the parents came to, to find out what had gone on with their children during the day and I was the first person the children headed for when somehting was "wrong". But you know what? No matter how good *I* was, there wasn't a child there who had rather have been with me, than with their own mother.
Mothers have abandoned their second calling from God (their first being to their husbands) and Fathers have allowed it. And why? For "personal fullfillment"? Money? "Ministry"? Let me tell you what scripture says about ministry: It begins at HOME. If you can't do it there, you have no business doing it elsewhere!
See? What did I say.... :thumbsup:
You seem to be saying two opposite things: On one hand, you say, "folks should do what God calls them to." On the other, you say, "A woman shouldn't just raise kids."
What if God calls her to?
Your two views conflict.
Whoa, sister! I think you're taking my words further than I would. I never said I was in support of daycare, neither do I think raising "latchkey" kids are ever a good idea. I abhor even the concept of other people raising your children. And while there are many people who, for whatever reason, have no choice, it's not the best way.
But children can be well-educated and cared for in a number of different settings. It doesn't always have to be Mom at home all day long. If there is enough flexibility, it can be Dad at home part of the time and Dad others. Or, if children attend school outside the home, sometimes Mom or Dad can be done in time to be at home.
God gave children to parents. Period. No one is better qualified to care for, raise, or educate a child than his or her parents (with the few exceptions of those parents who are filled with Satan and thus become abusers). God gave children specifically to their parents and called them a "heritage of the Lord".
So, if a first calling for a woman is to her husband, wouldn't it also be that a husbands first calling is to his wife? Wouldn't kids be next? After that, wouldn't some sort of calling come next, whether it be career or other ministry.
And what if a woman isn't called to be married? What if she can't have children? Is she less of a woman? We have to be careful imposing these blanket rules.
The whole time I've been talking here, I've said a bunch of times that I'm not in favor of abandoning families or being anything less than committed parents. Children are the first priority in that situation. But they don't have to be the only priority, and I would suggest that having outside areas of ministry, even if they begin with the entire family, are imperative for believers. It might be a job or career. It might be a set of relationships. It might be in a formal church ministry. There are lots of avenues and, speaking as a former idol of my mother, if people idolize their children, which I can assure you happens far more than Ann evidently believes, all will suffer.
We are all called to engage in ministry outside of our own homes. The gospel is pretty clear about that.
If a woman is called to be a stay-at-home mom, and it's practical in her family situation, that's great. Do it as well as you possibly can. But don't fail to look beyond for ministry opportunities, which come in many shapes and sizes.
I didn't say toss it. I said interpret it in context. Don't jump straight from reading to application.
In Christian circles, that number isn't close to accurate. And just because the opposite is also true doesn't mean that's it's not a real issue. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm for abandonment. I'm not advocating that by any means. I'm a teacher. I see what that does to little kids. It's terrible.
Yes, it is. I'm not going to act as if I know what's best for everyone, but I don't think solely operating inside of our families is the biblical ideal, either.
Women and men have turned their hearts from their families. That's not something new and that's not what I'm talking about.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Oh I absolutely agree, that Dad could just as easily take care of the kids as Mom. Mof, I believe we are moving as a society toward just that sort of thing, in spite of the fact or maybe because of the fact that women make less money than their male counterparts. But I don't believe that God ever intended for us (humans or Christians) to push our kids out the door to allow whoever to teach them, as soon as they were out of diapers as society tells is just fine. Its not just fine. Children need their parents.
Let me tell you what I see today. I see a whole bunch of children that only see the inside of their home long enough to sleep and bath. They eat on the way to school, at school and on the way to whatever extra curricular activity their parents have pushed them into in the name of having a "well rounded" child. Sometimes its not even Mom and Dad who takes them to all this activity, it whoever. (I've been whoever and refuse to play the part anymore)
I see middle school children who get dropped off and picked up and their parents have no clue what goes on in between, because "they don't need us anymore" when the truth is middle school is EXACTLY the time children need their parents input the most, because middle school is when kids stop believing everything their parents say and start believing what their "friends" say.
And I see high school kids, who's parents don't even know their schedules much less where they go after school. "Well, they can drive and I have to work." Do you really? Or have you decided that you no longer want to live on one salary and have sacrificed time with your child/ren in favor of a new car and a bigger house? Because you'd rather shop Anne Taylor than America's Thrift store?
I have a pretty good view from where God put me and I not only see this stuff, but folks will outright tell me that's why they are working! They aren't ashamed! They think this is what is best. And all the while their children are wandering around with little to no direction.
Now, you brought up the childless or the single with no children, not I. Obviously, if you have no children, then you have the freedom to have different priorities than a person with children.
It's never fine to abandon your children, but this isn't entirely a new phenomenon. Men have been doing it for generations, pretty much since we became industrialized. Women have been doing it more and more as their equality in the workplace has become more commonplace. It doesn't mean women shouldn't work. It means they (or men) shouldn't abandon their kids.
Yes, but I brought it up to point out that blanket statements, such as "a woman's first priority is her husband, followed by her children" can be exclusive and demeaning toward women without husbands and children. It is also equally true, though, that a man's first responsibility is his wife and then his children. If he has them, then yes it is. But if he doesn't, it doesn't make him any less of a man.
A married woman's first responsibility is to her husband, followed by her children.
Isn't it equally true that a married man's first responsibility is to his wife and then children?
Absolutely and the Bible tells us that his role is filled when he provides for his family, raises his children well and loves his wife.
Hmm...women can provide, too. There's nothing normative in the Bible to indicate otherwise, by most evangelical interpretations.
Yes, women can provide but there's no Scripture saying that it's a woman's job to provide for her family, is there? We see women working - in their home. Women are to be keepers - of their home.
We see that because that's what women did in a culture that was demeaning toward women. The Bible speaks to those people where they are. Simply pointing to examples is nowhere close to normative proof. There is no hint of overarching, normative evidence to suggest women cannot provide for their families just as a man. Or to say a man can't be primarily involved in the administration of a home.
It's not as simple as reading and applying. We have to interpret, as well.
I can't believe you people have actually made me have to agree with Annsi.