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Tree of Life
- Thread starter Hawaiiski
- Start date
Some would say that the Tree of Life was not just a decoration and that death at the fall was merely spiritual death that affected only mankind. Therefore your question is a false dichotomy based on the presupposition that of the relationship between death in mankind and the Tree of Life.
One way of looking at it is the physical death of mankind was because of their lack of access to the Tree of Life and this view is supported by the fact that the Tree makes a reappearance in the New City at the end of Revelations.
Darren
I read that article a while back and it seems in order to "explain" something the writer can have an incredible amount of textual liberty. For example he states the Tree of Life to be just a symbolic sacrament comparing it to the Lord's supper, this really reduces the purpose and function of the Tree of Life down to just the ordinary everyday tree, just another regular tree in the garden with all the other trees.
This is one of those situations where I am happy to think a certain way until I see evidence otherwise. In Rev 2:7 Jesus speaks of giving of the Tree of Life which is in the midst of Paradise of God, so now there is the need to duplicate the explanation of the sacrament/symbolism theory and read that into the Revelation account of the Tree of life as well. Does it fit? Does the Tree of Life serve another function in Rev than it did the Gen? Is it the same Tree or another?
Just some thoughts.
Darren
Lastday
Hawaiiski:
You make two observations that are very, very interesting.....
In Ezek.47:12, anyone who wishes to live must eat the leaves of the Tree of Life. This same requirement continues with respect
to the "Kings of earth who bring their honor and glory into the New Jerusalem" throughout eternity. Rev.21:24-26; Rev.21:2,14.
The final "blessing" in the Book of Revelation is for these Kings who have the "right to enter through the gates into the holy city".
There will be "no night" in that Eternal Holy City made up of the Bride of the Lamb. They have Eternal Life and eat of the FRUIT
of the Tree of Life. But the Kings of earth may/must enter "day or night to be HEALED by eating the leaves of the Tree of Life".
This suggests that the Tree of Life for Adam, as well as for the Kings of Earth in eternity, is related to the continuance of Eternal Life.
Mel
Hawaiiski:
You make two observations that are very, very interesting.....
Answering the 2nd question, Ituttut says the Tree of Life means "Eternal Life".
In Ezek.47:12, anyone who wishes to live must eat the leaves of the Tree of Life. This same requirement continues with respect
to the "Kings of earth who bring their honor and glory into the New Jerusalem" throughout eternity. Rev.21:24-26; Rev.21:2,14.
The final "blessing" in the Book of Revelation is for these Kings who have the "right to enter through the gates into the holy city".
There will be "no night" in that Eternal Holy City made up of the Bride of the Lamb. They have Eternal Life and eat of the FRUIT
of the Tree of Life. But the Kings of earth may/must enter "day or night to be HEALED by eating the leaves of the Tree of Life".
This suggests that the Tree of Life for Adam, as well as for the Kings of Earth in eternity, is related to the continuance of Eternal Life.
Mel
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glfredrick
New Member
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Clearly, if man had eaten of the tree of life, even as a sinner, he would have lived forever.
Interesting thought: Eastern religions with a view of life that includes reincarnation view life as virtually everlasting, a repetition of pain and misery (what we call sin and the effects of the curse) that they hope to escape via their philosophies and works. Living forever under the curse of sin is not that great a proposition. Even those who claim that is the case are trying to avoid it by, finally, doing enough right to be subsumed into Nirvana -- nothingness.
A corollary to that thought is that we carry with us a view of life everlasting that is not all that great... Largely because we view eternal life from a sinful, cursed, vantage point, we don't often see eternity with God as something more desirable than life here on earth. In a sense, we seem to think that we will need to give up something (or someone) that we currently love so much that parting is unbearable. We need to get to where God is concerning true saved eternity! It will not be boring, we will not miss out, and we will have something to do besides worship at the foot of the throne forever, though that is an option that we can partake in at every instant!
Clearly, if man had eaten of the tree of life, even as a sinner, he would have lived forever.
Interesting thought: Eastern religions with a view of life that includes reincarnation view life as virtually everlasting, a repetition of pain and misery (what we call sin and the effects of the curse) that they hope to escape via their philosophies and works. Living forever under the curse of sin is not that great a proposition. Even those who claim that is the case are trying to avoid it by, finally, doing enough right to be subsumed into Nirvana -- nothingness.
A corollary to that thought is that we carry with us a view of life everlasting that is not all that great... Largely because we view eternal life from a sinful, cursed, vantage point, we don't often see eternity with God as something more desirable than life here on earth. In a sense, we seem to think that we will need to give up something (or someone) that we currently love so much that parting is unbearable. We need to get to where God is concerning true saved eternity! It will not be boring, we will not miss out, and we will have something to do besides worship at the foot of the throne forever, though that is an option that we can partake in at every instant!
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What I believe is some christians equate eternal life in the garden as intrinsic immortality or even invulnerability. I don't doubt that having the presence of God in the person affects the situation but having that, if Adam slipped on some wet grass and cracked his head on a rock would he be injured or could he have died? Of course its a couterfactual that seems irrelevant to some but still how would they have been sustained physically in the garden? The tree was fuctional IMHO and not just another regular tree in the garden, they also needed to eat food and breathe air, reproduce..etc
Darren
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Yes, I believe they would have died as they would not have access to Everlasting Life (eternity). In eating of the forbidden tree, they became as God, knowing about good and evil.
We today in these bodies die, because we know what is good and what is evil. But this cannot give us eternal life. Only God the Tree of Life can do this. We die for our knowledge, and we forfeit Eternal Life as we think great knowledge is the answer, and through this knowledge we no need of God, and certainly have no need for His only begotten Son.
Satan had this knowledge of Good and Evil, but he also had eaten previously of the Tree of Life before . But so long fellow, for you refused to Fear your maker. Your beauty, power, and pride did you in. You would not any longer be one of the sons of God.You wanted to be higher, and more powerful than your maker.You talked a third of the angles into following in your footsteps, and now God has seen to it that you and your followers will be replaced by others.
.
I was thinking over this a few months ago and someone mentioned something about immortality for Adam and Eve, therefore not requiring the use of the tree of Life in the garden. Though I can't agree that Adam and even were immortal I did change my view on the glorified body, the only way I can see this functioned biblically is to be immortal, therefore the function of the Tree of life in the New City may still be a mystery for me. One checkpoint I use is that those resurrected to eternal torment will live forever without the use of the Tree of Life in the lake of fire (obviously). Of course I don't have it all worked out and am glad to read what others may think. :thumbsup:
Darren
glfredrick
New Member
Perhaps the word "life" means something other than the way we commonly define it in post-fall human terms?
Lastday
glfredrick,
You wrote:
The nature of life (other than being eternal) for the Kings of earth who continue to be "healed by the leaves" of the Tree of Life is not revealed.
We do not yet know why they eat of the "leaves" while the Lamb's Bride
may eat of the "fruit" of the Tree. Rev.21:24-26; 22:2,14. The "leaves"
serve an unknown but necessary purpose relative to the "healing" of the earthly Kings who visit the Holy City after it "comes down from heaven
to rest upon/over the earth".
The "healing" also applies to those who inhabit the earth when Paradise is
restored. The beneficiaries of this restoration include both Israel and the
nations that are "left" on the earth. They must come annually to Jerusalem
to worship the Lord and eat of the leaves of the Tree of Life or they will receive "no rain for their crops". Ezek.47:12; Zech.14:16-23.
Mel
glfredrick,
You wrote:
The nature of life (other than being eternal) for the Kings of earth who continue to be "healed by the leaves" of the Tree of Life is not revealed.
We do not yet know why they eat of the "leaves" while the Lamb's Bride
may eat of the "fruit" of the Tree. Rev.21:24-26; 22:2,14. The "leaves"
serve an unknown but necessary purpose relative to the "healing" of the earthly Kings who visit the Holy City after it "comes down from heaven
to rest upon/over the earth".
The "healing" also applies to those who inhabit the earth when Paradise is
restored. The beneficiaries of this restoration include both Israel and the
nations that are "left" on the earth. They must come annually to Jerusalem
to worship the Lord and eat of the leaves of the Tree of Life or they will receive "no rain for their crops". Ezek.47:12; Zech.14:16-23.
Mel
Lastday
Friends,
There have been 266 views on this thread but no descriptive reaction to
the fact that God is planning an earthly Kingdom to exist on earth forever
that will be made up of "sheep nations" after Christ "sits on His throne" for
1000 years and separates the "sheep and goat nations" at the End! Matt.
25:31-46.
The necessity for the separate earthly Kingdom extending into eternity
rests upon the Davidic Covenant which goes into effect when Christ
reunites the two "nations" of Ephraim and Judah a second time by fulfilling Isaiah, Ezekiel and Hosea after God "returned to His Place"...
after 2000 years since Christ's ascension!! Hosea 5:14 to 6:2.
Proof of the continuation of the earthly Kingdom beyond Christ's Millennial
Reign is presented by the need for the Kings of earth to "enter the New
Jerusalem, day or night, to be healed by the leaves of the Tree of Life".
The KJV states that the "Nations that are SAVED will walk in the light of
the New Jerusalem (forever) while their Kings visit the New Jerusalem and bring their glory and honor into it...as well as to be healed"!!! Rev.21:24. Mel
Friends,
There have been 266 views on this thread but no descriptive reaction to
the fact that God is planning an earthly Kingdom to exist on earth forever
that will be made up of "sheep nations" after Christ "sits on His throne" for
1000 years and separates the "sheep and goat nations" at the End! Matt.
25:31-46.
The necessity for the separate earthly Kingdom extending into eternity
rests upon the Davidic Covenant which goes into effect when Christ
reunites the two "nations" of Ephraim and Judah a second time by fulfilling Isaiah, Ezekiel and Hosea after God "returned to His Place"...
after 2000 years since Christ's ascension!! Hosea 5:14 to 6:2.
Proof of the continuation of the earthly Kingdom beyond Christ's Millennial
Reign is presented by the need for the Kings of earth to "enter the New
Jerusalem, day or night, to be healed by the leaves of the Tree of Life".
The KJV states that the "Nations that are SAVED will walk in the light of
the New Jerusalem (forever) while their Kings visit the New Jerusalem and bring their glory and honor into it...as well as to be healed"!!! Rev.21:24. Mel
Since death entered the world through sin, if they would have never sinned, they would have never died.
Again, enjoyable reading. Not many responses as may be too deep, excepting for a few scholars hat are intersected in God's earthly people, void of Gentiles, in the Body of Christ.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Interesting article, although I know many of my compatriots in BB land find such to be "anathema".
http://biologos.org/questions/death-before-the-fall/
http://biologos.org/questions/death-before-the-fall/
Don't agree will all, but enjoyed your take on this, and a deep subject that some are not that interested in, or have no preconceived leanings, or beliefs when time as we know it, runs out.
If you read mine to Hawaiiski on page one, I believe you'll see my meaning of the Body of Christ. .