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Where do Babies Go When they Die - Continued
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Steadfast Fred
Active Member
2 Samuel 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
David could not have spoken of the grave when he said "I shall go to him." The child had not yet been buried.
Where was David referring to in his statement? Surely he did not mean hell. David spoke of the horrors of hell in his Psalms.
One thing some overlook in this passage is the age of the child that died. Was he old enough that he knew and understood who God was and what God required of him? If so, then that would explain David's statement to mean that the child had believed God.
But if the child were too young, then David could only mean that a child that did not understand did not have sin and its penalty imputed to him.
Of course, we must also look at the verse that tells us that the wicked come forth speaking lies as soon as they are born.
If this verse were to be taken literally, it would appear that some babies are born to be wicked and others not. This is not consistent with God's Word though, for we know that He is not a respecter of persons.
I sincerely believe that there is something to the 'age of accountability' teaching we hear from many. I believe those children who die before understanding the Gospel do indeed find rest in the Lord.
David could not have spoken of the grave when he said "I shall go to him." The child had not yet been buried.
Where was David referring to in his statement? Surely he did not mean hell. David spoke of the horrors of hell in his Psalms.
One thing some overlook in this passage is the age of the child that died. Was he old enough that he knew and understood who God was and what God required of him? If so, then that would explain David's statement to mean that the child had believed God.
But if the child were too young, then David could only mean that a child that did not understand did not have sin and its penalty imputed to him.
Of course, we must also look at the verse that tells us that the wicked come forth speaking lies as soon as they are born.
If this verse were to be taken literally, it would appear that some babies are born to be wicked and others not. This is not consistent with God's Word though, for we know that He is not a respecter of persons.
I sincerely believe that there is something to the 'age of accountability' teaching we hear from many. I believe those children who die before understanding the Gospel do indeed find rest in the Lord.
Do you think any of these babies have heard Jesus say well done faithful servant?
Have any of you known someone you think Jesus has told well done faithful servant?
Anybody else want a shot at this?
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How about you?:smilewinkgrin:
Steadfast Fred
Can I bring him back again? From being dead.
I shall go to him. I shall die.
But he shall not return to me. From the dead.
We read way to much into this passage.
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. Whatever that means?
Can I bring him back again? From being dead.
I shall go to him. I shall die.
But he shall not return to me. From the dead.
We read way to much into this passage.
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. Whatever that means?
convicted1
Guest
AMEN, Sister Amy, AMEN!!:thumbs::thumbs:
That right there was one real good response, I reckon, yep, I reckon so!!
Willis
convicted1
Guest
RE: Where do babies go when they die? Easy, HEAVEN!!
Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Here, Apostle Paul states that he was alive without the law once, but when sin was conceived in his heart, he then died, and was now under the penalty of sin. What is the penalty of sin?
Ezek. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
These two verses in Ezekiel plainly states the "soul that sinneth" shall die, not the body that sinneth. There are two men we talk about in regards to all mankind, the "inner" man, and the "outer" man. Death was pronounced upon ALL MEN because of Adam's sin in the Garden. And furthermore, in verse 20, it also plainly states that the son shall not bear the sin of the father, nor the father for the son. We will all pay for our own sins, ownly.
Romans Ch. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
It is only when we willfully sin, that God accounts it unto us. I will sum all this up with one last verse.
Romans 4: 15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
i am I am's!!
Willis
Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Here, Apostle Paul states that he was alive without the law once, but when sin was conceived in his heart, he then died, and was now under the penalty of sin. What is the penalty of sin?
Ezek. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
These two verses in Ezekiel plainly states the "soul that sinneth" shall die, not the body that sinneth. There are two men we talk about in regards to all mankind, the "inner" man, and the "outer" man. Death was pronounced upon ALL MEN because of Adam's sin in the Garden. And furthermore, in verse 20, it also plainly states that the son shall not bear the sin of the father, nor the father for the son. We will all pay for our own sins, ownly.
Romans Ch. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
It is only when we willfully sin, that God accounts it unto us. I will sum all this up with one last verse.
Romans 4: 15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
i am I am's!!
Willis
The verse you quoted does not prove that faith takes place before regeneration at all.
Those who believe do not perish because they have been regenerated. The proof that they have been regenerated is faith.
Whosoever loves the brethren shall never perish either. But loving the brethren does not predate regeneration.
This verse has NOTHING at all to do with chronology of salvation.
The fact of the matter is that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God neither CAN HE...
The natural man is dead in his trespasses and sins and cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God in that dead state. He must be something more than natural in order to receive spiritual things. That is regeneration.
Are you saying that every time the term "save" is used in relation to Jesus that it has to be redemption?
I believe that too but not for the reasons you posit.
David knew the child was going to the grave. He could easily have meant grave. If you are standing here near me in my home but about to go to the grocery store it is perfectly proper and logical for me to say- "I shall go to meet him," even though you are not there yet. Yours is no argument at all against David speaking of the grave.
And then you half way deny that humans are born in sin; born sinners. You seem to take it back so it is hard to see where you stand on the matter, but to deny that humans come forth from the womb in sin and with a sin nature is dangerous.
The simplest way to explain this problem is this:
God can save babies without them doing ANYTHING for salvation. This is the same way he saves all humans.
Actually, MOST of the time "saved" is used it is NOT talking eternal redemption. Interesting that we, with our spiritual jargon, have myopia when looking at certain words and think we know what they must mean.
Jailer in Philippi knew his life was forfeit if even one prisoner in his charge escaped. Into the dark ruins he came, hearing Paul comfort him by saying that they were all still there. He called for a lantern and confronted Paul asking, "What can be done so that I will be delivered?" NOTHING to do with salvation of his soul.
But Paul, ever the alert ambassador, did a play on words and shifted from the physical "saved" to the spiritual "saved". I like that and often try to do the same in my witnessing of God's Grace to others.
And like Paul, the only way we humans can "quantify" the inward regenerating work of the holy Spirit, is to see the outward manifestations of repentance and faith (that come, of course, AFTER regeneration). Asking if someone believes is a natural way for us to judge [as best we can] the activity of the heart.
BTW, just to be sure to tie this to the op, NO BABY "BELIEVES". So if they go to heaven, it is by the grace of God along WITHOUT faith or repentance or anything.
For the Son of man came to save that which was lost. How think ye? if any man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and go unto the mountains, and seek that which goeth astray? Mt 18:11,12
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:24
...Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt:10:5,6
What man of you, having a hundred sheep, and having lost one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and his neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. Lu 15:4,5,6
Take note, they're sheep, not goats. Lost implies something out of place, not something bound for destruction.
Lost. Most automatically make it synonymous with 'bound for hellfire damnation'.
Saved. Most automatically make it synomynous with the acquisition of eternal life.
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David was made to hope while on his mother's breast. John the Baptist jumped for joy while in his mother's womb. The Spirit blows where it wills.
Our faith has zilch to do with whether we're a child of the heavenly Zion. Contrary to what's generally believed, we don't choose to be born from above. It's not within our power.
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I was always under the impression it was Cleveland.
psalms109:31
Active Member
I have to constantly change my belief to believe God. The Spirit of God constantly teaches my very soul.
One seed came Israel to a tree. This is what was chosen before the foundation of the world. There is one’s who was cut out not because they were not chosen but for unbelief. Jesus said if you disown me I will disown you. Now we Gentiles have been included when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.
God said that He will keep the meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord. This is the lost He came to find. These are the one who are His. These are the one's the Father will draw and He will hide the truth from the wise and learned. Trust in Jesus is the only way and to God it is not work or does it take away from the grace of God.
One seed came Israel to a tree. This is what was chosen before the foundation of the world. There is one’s who was cut out not because they were not chosen but for unbelief. Jesus said if you disown me I will disown you. Now we Gentiles have been included when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.
God said that He will keep the meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord. This is the lost He came to find. These are the one who are His. These are the one's the Father will draw and He will hide the truth from the wise and learned. Trust in Jesus is the only way and to God it is not work or does it take away from the grace of God.
Faith is an act of the spirit, not of the mind, so you have no real basis for this statement. Don't forget that John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb at the sound of Mary's greeting.
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But all those who are born from above will manifest faith at some point in time.
HankD
I haven't looked at every time that word is associated with Jesus, but every time He says "your faith has saved you" it is not speaking merely of from a physical ailment. His ministry was not that of making life nice and cozy while here on earth.
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