Are you referring to Titus 1:15?
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
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What can unregenerate man do?
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Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
This is an example of pulling a phrase out of context to make it say what it does not say. When Paul said this he was addressing Jews who knew the OT. This phrase was from Psalms 14. It is speaking of "the wicked", not all men.
Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.
5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.
7 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
Was David speaking of 100% of men in this Psalm? Do all men say "There is no God"? No.
Notice it says in verse 3 that they have "gone aside". How can you go out of the way if you were never in the way? How can a sheep go astray from the flock that never belonged to the flock? You can't.
The Jews knew this Psalm and knew it was not speaking of all men, but of wicked men, fools who reject God. Notice verse 4 speaks of "my people". Verse 5 speaks of "the generation of the righteous". Verse 6 speaks of the poor whose refuge (trust) is the Lord. Notice verse 7 speaks of "his people".
So, in verse 1 when it says there is none that doeth good, it is not speaking of 100% of men, it is speaking of evil, wicked men who reject God.
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I don't think so. Jesus said evil men give their children good gifts. That's pretty plain to me. How do you interpret it?
Surely you are not serious. Many who do not know God still love their children.
I'm not going to yield. Jesus said evil men give good gifts to their children. That's good enough for me.
It is clear that the unregenerate has the ability to believe once he is enlightened and taught by God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
This verse is very straightforward. Who has life? He that believes. Who will not see life? He that believes not.
So, it is clear that believeing determines whether one lives (regeneration).
Regeneration is life. It is being born again, it is being made spritually alive. You cannot be regenerated and have life until you first believe. There are many verses that confirm this.
If you must believe to have life, then the unregenerate MUST have the ability to believe.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
This verse is very straightforward. Who has life? He that believes. Who will not see life? He that believes not.
So, it is clear that believeing determines whether one lives (regeneration).
Regeneration is life. It is being born again, it is being made spritually alive. You cannot be regenerated and have life until you first believe. There are many verses that confirm this.
If you must believe to have life, then the unregenerate MUST have the ability to believe.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Good Stuff Thinkingstuff. Thanks for sharing.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Folks: The Lord put this subject on my heart so here goes. He wont put you to sleep. Promise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ9Lpwo9U7Q
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The unregenerate man on his own cannot come...you are correct there and exactly what total depravity teaches.
Not 100%. Whosoever calls. (100% of those that call) Unless you mean whosoever out of the world, then I would agree with your 100%. The whosoevers are the ones that believe.
so you would say that it's the word of God that enables a man to be saved. So let me ask you this, why does the Word of God work for some and not others? I know I'm saved and it seems that you are saved. So why did you and I accept, but the guy that goes to hell didn't accept?
Some men love darkness and evil
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Psa 52:3 Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.
Mic 3:2 Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones;
2 Thess 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Why do men mug little old ladies? Because it is easier to steal than to work. Men gamble for the same reason, they want to get rich easy without having to work.
Why do men use alcohol and drugs? Because they love the pleasurable feelings it gives them.
Why do men engage in fornication, prostitution, and pornography? Because they love the pleasures of the flesh.
Some men do not want God to govern over them, they want to do what they want to do whether it is good or evil
Psa 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Why was Moses saved? Because he valued God more than pleasure.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Why was the rich young ruler lost? Because he valued his prestige, power, wealth, and comfort more than God.
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
That's why.
That is circular reasoning. That is like saying those that painted the house painted... those who ate the pie ate. It is saying nothing at all. Paul was saying salvation is available to all men everywhere.
How do I know that? Verse 12.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
The scriptures say God is not partial, he is no respecter of persons. If election as Calvinists define it is true, then God is indeed very partial and prefers some persons over others.
So, Paul was not speaking in circular reasoning, he was saying salvation is available to all men everywhere.
Jesus did not die for some men, he died for all men.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
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So you are saying you accepted God's provision, Christ's salvation, by faith, because you in and of yourself loved the light rather than darkness. Why is that, and would that give you grounds to boast over the other man who chose to continue in darkness? please explain
On a side note, you are correct that believers at some point turn from the love of darkness and sin unto hatred of it. At some point a genuine believer has become in love with the light, this point is the day of our salvation. The question again is, what caused us, sinners who hated God at one point, to completely change? Was it an initial belief that led to our change in nature or was it a change in our nature that led us to belief?
Interesting
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I got saved because I went to church and the pastor preached a real fire and brimestone sermon on sin and the wages of sin, DEATH. He convinced me I was a sinner on my way to hell. I was scared to death. But he also convinced me that Jesus loved me and died for my sins and would save me if I came to him in my heart for forgiveness. I tell ya, I almost ran down at the invitation, I did not want to leave that church without getting my salvation settled right then and there.
How does that make me worthy of boasting?
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbsup:
The use of "boasting" borders on being an ad hominem statement. Nothing in your earlier statement even hinted at boasting.
God's Word convinced me that good is better than evil. The wages of sin is DEATH, to be tormented forever in the lake of fire. I can't think of any earthly pleasure that is worth that.
So, if I love good over evil, it is because God enlightened me. So he gets all the credit.
If I had never heard the Word of God, who knows? Perhaps I would have believed that evil is better than good. I think this is what some people really believe. Why work when you can steal? Why be faithful to your wife when you can enjoy yourself with many women? Why not take drugs and alcohol? They make you feel good. Why not gamble? It is easier than working.
Why not lie whenever it benefits you? If I believed that one I would become a politician. :tongue3:
Some folks do not believe in the hereafter, and so they believe sin is pleasurable and beneficial to them. This is why I believe many people love sin.
I told you before to stop trying to pin circular reasoning on me. you're not good at it. It's not circular at all.
If I said, all those that believe believe, then you would have a point. you like to twist my words around because you think you know my doctrine when you don't. It says whosoever believes will be saved? Who will be saved, the whosoever. It could also be said that everyone that believes...or anyone that believes. Now, who is the whosoever taken from? The world as in the first part of the verse. Whoever in the world believes will be saved.
- it's funny because I know exactly why you made this comment because you think you know what I believe...but you're mistaken on that.
the rest of your post was off topic. Not even closely related to the topic at hand. If you want to talk about election, then we can in another thread.
You still didn't answer the question. Why did you love the light rather than darkness?
Why did you? Don't you know why you believed? If you are saved, then you loved the light rather than darkness as well as I. Why do you need to ask me something you should already know?
If you take this one verse out of context it could mean what you say. But if you read it in context it is clear that Paul is saying that "there is no difference". God does not prefer any man over another, salvation is available to all.
The scriptures say repeatedly that God is no respecter of persons. This refutes election as Calvinism defines it. If God elects some men and passes by others, then he is partial.
Calvinists say election is unconditional, that is impossible. God must have some reason to elect some and pass by others. Do you believe God acts without reason?
Why did I(you and all those that get saved) love light rather than darkness? what was different about us compared to the one that never comes to Christ?
If you are saved, then you know the answer. Jesus said those that love darkness will not come to the light, therefore those who love the light come to it. You should already know the answer, why do you keep asking me what you should already know?
Why do you love the light?
Winman, have I said anything about that? you need to go back and read what I wrote.
As I said, this is off topic. If you want to talk about election and "no respecter of persons" then I'll be glad to engage in that discussion on another thread.
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