Another reason to homeschool

[Gina B]

Just in case you're doubting your decision...

I work in the school system. Between classes I stand in the hallway and make sure kids are safe, there's no fighting, and that when the bell rings, no students are still in the hallway.

Students who have boyfriends/girlfriends often cling to each other between classes, exchanging long hugs and kissing on the lips. There's no rule against this.

So what am I seeing on a regular basis?

Same sex couples clinging, hugging, kissing.

There's no rule against hugs or kisses so nothing can be said.

This happens in both the middle schools and high schools.

Aberrant sexual behavior freely on display between and around kids as young as twelve years old. Lovely, isn't it?

 

[annsni]

I wouldn't say that's a reason to homeschool because you can see that in the world as well.

Honestly, I think ALL PDA's should be prohibited in school.

But it's a great opportunity to teach my kids about God's design for relationships and sex. If my kids are in school, I address that at a much younger age but by 12, even my homeschooled children understand about homosexuality.

 

[jaigner]

I wouldn't say that's a reason to homeschool because you can see that in the world as well.

Honestly, I think ALL PDA's should be prohibited in school.

But it's a great opportunity to teach my kids about God's design for relationships and sex. If my kids are in school, I address that at a much younger age but by 12, even my homeschooled children understand about homosexuality.

I agree with this statement. There's no reason for kids to be hugging and kissing on each other in school. They don't really even need to see heterosexual contact at school.

But we don't simply stay out of the world because it acts like....well...the world. We have to engage with it to further the gospel. Most homeschooling families I knew growing up (mine included) liked to make quick jumps into reality and throw a "Jesus grenade" or something, and then go back under our rock. That breeds judgment and hostility from those Jesus died to save.

 

[Gina B]

A Christian parents loses a LOT of credibility when they let their kids be surrounded by sinful behavior that is accepted by the people a child likes or looks to as an authority figure.

Middle school especially is an age where they're going to start questioning you anyhow and they are more vulnerable to what they see and hear.

I'm having this discussion with one of my children because they are starting to convince her that people are born this way and it is okay. I believe that if she wasn't exposed to it regularly in public school and if she wasn't surrounded by classmates and teachers that accept it as normal, she would have had time to grow stronger in what she believes and trusts.

You don't throw 'em to the bears with sticks to teach them self defense. You wait until they're old enough and smart enough to defend themselves properly.

This particular child of mine wasn't ready. Another was.

Argue as you wish, but I'm living with the results of allowing my child to be exposed to this on a regular basis in public school. She's desensitized to it.

And other kids will be too, and other kids are, and they're afraid to tell mom and dad or discuss it because they are afraid of your reaction.

 

[jaigner]

And other kids will be too, and other kids are, and they're afraid to tell mom and dad or discuss it because they are afraid of your reaction.

This is a good point. There is no good reason, ever, for a child to be afraid to talk to Mom and Dad about something. I grew up in a household like that and it caused a ton of problems for me.

And obviously there is an appropriate age for exposure to different facets of our society.

But if we want our children to be able to engage with the culture around them, they are going to have to be able to see worldly behaviors without wincing in those people's faces.

Part of the problem is that homosexuality is a favorite demographic for us to hate. We quarantine and separate and judge without representing the gospel faithfully.

There comes a time when children have to be trained to do this.

 

[annsni]

A Christian parents loses a LOT of credibility when they let their kids be surrounded by sinful behavior that is accepted by the people a child likes or looks to as an authority figure.

Why? When I explain to my children that none of these authority figures have God's best in mind, they totally understand. Even my 10 and 7 year olds understand that there is sin in the world and to not look at the world as their role models for behavior.

Middle school especially is an age where they're going to start questioning you anyhow and they are more vulnerable to what they see and hear.

While my kids never went to middle school, they certainly were exposed to the world at that age through our community and our past times (boating). They never questioned us because we taught them not just "don't do this" but why. They fully embraced it.

I'm having this discussion with one of my children because they are starting to convince her that people are born this way and it is okay. I believe that if she wasn't exposed to it regularly in public school and if she wasn't surrounded by classmates and teachers that accept it as normal, she would have had time to grow stronger in what she believes and trusts.

Maybe, maybe not. Just watch TV. Just walk down the street or go to a mall. Look at the paper, magazines, etc. Just standing in the grocery store a the check-out line makes the kids exposed to it. But we need to explain to them the truth in light of Scripture and they will understand.

You don't throw 'em to the bears with sticks to teach them self defense. You wait until they're old enough and smart enough to defend themselves properly.

So do you never let them see the neighborhood kids? Never play an organized community sport? It's out there.

This particular child of mine wasn't ready. Another was.

I believe they are ready to receive the truth when we tell them in light of God's Word and using age-appropriate language.

Argue as you wish, but I'm living with the results of allowing my child to be exposed to this on a regular basis in public school. She's desensitized to it.

And other kids will be too, and other kids are, and they're afraid to tell mom and dad or discuss it because they are afraid of your reaction.

This is why you have open communication with your children from the beginning. This makes all of the difference in the world. When we follow Proverbs and teach them when we sit down, when we get up, when we're traveling with them - basically all the time, we should not fear the world.

I prefer to have my kids at home not because of what others will teach them but because God has called me to keep them home. Yes, they are growing in a more protected environment and I'm able to keep some things away from them for a little bit longer but it doesn't mean that they will never be exposed to this stuff. But with my guidance, honestly speaking what God has to say about things to them so that they understand not just the rules but the WHY behind the rules, my kids are able to make wise choices and not have their hearts turned by the world. Both of my older girls were in public school from 9th grade to 12th grade and now both of them are in college - and not in Christian college. My oldest is majoring in art education and there is a LOT of sin in that field (art) but she deals with it in a godly way. My younger one comes home and discusses with me the things she's being taught in some classes that are opposed to what she's learned in the Scriptures and we have great talks where I can disciple her further and she becomes even more solid in her faith.

Unless we keep our kids in our homes full time, never bringing in ANY outside influences, they will be exposed to things that go against our beliefs. But it's how we respond to these things that make a difference.

 

[Gina B]

I only have time for a quick answer...

No, I'm not speaking of keeping them home full time, just about common sense.

Sin is out there, most certainly, but the city school system where I live is alive and pulsating with things children should NOT have to be exposed to.

My kids will see this stuff in the world, but school is where they are sent to LEARN about life. The schools are teaching sin as good and often mocking good.

This is NOT the type of exposure children need to grow and thrive.

I don't need to bring sin to my children, they are surrounded by it. I do not take my children to truck stops at night to teach them how to deal with prostitutions, I do not move to a part of town fraught with drug dealers to teach them how to cope with drugs, but you are saying I shouldn't be concerned with putting them in a public school where they are taught aberrant sexual behavior?

Should I be especially repulsed by this topic and focus on it more than, say, smoking? I am and I do because this it is more physically and spiritually damaging.

No, kids shouldn't be afraid to talk to their parents but trust me, many are. I had one father tell me "I don't even want to know" when talking about his daughter and what happens in school. He is being willfully ignorant because he doesn't want to deal with it. His daughter will NOT be going to him with questions and he is not aware that she even has them.

There ARE many parents like that...if the kid even QUESTIONS these things, the parent gets angry and treats them stupid instead of using the Bible and logic and teaching the kid how to think for him/herself. Sometimes the kid is simply too embarrassed.

Whatever the case, homeschooling is done for many different reasons.

I believe exposure to this behavior on a daily basis for a child is spiritually harmful and a VERY valid reason to add to "reasons to homeschool."

It is a warning to those that are considering the pros and cons of public vs home and an encouragement for those that ARE homeschooling.

If you don't agree, so be it. I have older teens, younger teens, and tweens. I homeschooled, I used private schools, and I used public schools. I have first-hand knowledge of all three and first-hand experience in the public schools.

If it isn't a problem for you now, good. That's nice. Don't toss it out though, remember it when your kids are a little older and you're no longer their hero who knows everything.
Maybe you'll be lucky and have NONE of your kids question it. That would be nice too. I have five, out of five, one is questioning it. I never thought she would, and she is.

Thankfully she talks to me. I'm lucky.

It's not an argument, it's a statement and a warning. If you don't agree with it there's not much I can do but say "hey, watch for it anyhow and try to make sure your kids feel safe and okay with talking to you if they end up with questions or disagreements."

I gotta go...Wish me luck, I took off work with pay to...well, go work without pay. (yeah, I'm a public school graduate)

 

[annsni]

My kids will see this stuff in the world, but school is where they are sent to LEARN about life.

I send my kids to be educated - I will teach them about life.

I don't need to bring sin to my children, they are surrounded by it. I do not take my children to truck stops at night to teach them how to deal with prostitutions, I do not move to a part of town fraught with drug dealers to teach them how to cope with drugs, but you are saying I shouldn't be concerned with putting them in a public school where they are taught aberrant sexual behavior?

Are they being taught that or are they seeing it? There's a big difference. If your children are being taught this, pull them from the class. But if they are seeing in the hallway, get involved and ask that the school put a restriction on PDAs. Speak to the school board. There are ways to deal with this without just running.

Should I be especially repulsed by this topic and focus on it more than, say, smoking? I am and I do because this it is more physically and spiritually damaging.

No, kids shouldn't be afraid to talk to their parents but trust me, many are. I had one father tell me "I don't even want to know" when talking about his daughter and what happens in school. He is being willfully ignorant because he doesn't want to deal with it. His daughter will NOT be going to him with questions and he is not aware that she even has them.

There ARE many parents like that...if the kid even QUESTIONS these things, the parent gets angry and treats them stupid instead of using the Bible and logic and teaching the kid how to think for him/herself. Sometimes the kid is simply too embarrassed.

But we're speaking about our own children in the OP, are we not? Yes, we should work to make school a safe place for ALL but to just pull our kids, we say "We don't care about you - it's about survival for our own."

I believe exposure to this behavior on a daily basis for a child is spiritually harmful and a VERY valid reason to add to "reasons to homeschool."

It is a warning to those that are considering the pros and cons of public vs home and an encouragement for those that ARE homeschooling.

If you don't agree, so be it. I have older teens, younger teens, and tweens. I homeschooled, I used private schools, and I used public schools. I have first-hand knowledge of all three and first-hand experience in the public schools.

If it isn't a problem for you now, good. That's nice. Don't toss it out though, remember it when your kids are a little older and you're no longer their hero who knows everything.
Maybe you'll be lucky and have NONE of your kids question it. That would be nice too. I have five, out of five, one is questioning it. I never thought she would, and she is.

Thankfully she talks to me. I'm lucky.

It's not an argument, it's a statement and a warning. If you don't agree with it there's not much I can do but say "hey, watch for it anyhow and try to make sure your kids feel safe and okay with talking to you if they end up with questions or disagreements."

I gotta go...Wish me luck, I took off work with pay to...well, go work without pay. (yeah, I'm a public school graduate)

The first thing we can do is to instruct our own kids. From there, we can and SHOULD be active in our school district being an advocate for the kids. We also need to pray for our school administrators, board, leaders and employees as well.

Have a great day.

 

[Steven2006]

I see Gina's point. It is much different for a child to casually see from a distance same sex couples expressing themselves in public, than to being among peers doing so on a daily basis.

Yes we teach them about life and morals at home, but other than casually addressing those type of things, the morals and life choices I want to be mostly dealing with when my children are middle school age are not these.

Why they need for our children to grow up so fast. Ideally if homeschooling lets them be an innocent child for a little longer in life, I think that is a blessing, not a bad thing.

 

[rbell]

This is a good point. There is no good reason, ever, for a child to be afraid to talk to Mom and Dad about something. I grew up in a household like that and it caused a ton of problems for me.

And obviously there is an appropriate age for exposure to different facets of our society.

But if we want our children to be able to engage with the culture around them, they are going to have to be able to see worldly behaviors without wincing in those people's faces.

Part of the problem is that homosexuality is a favorite demographic for us to hate. We quarantine and separate and judge without representing the gospel faithfully.

There comes a time when children have to be trained to do this.

See, this is why your credibility is diminished on this type of discussion:

• A parent doesn't want their kid to be constantly exposed (and thus de-sensitized) to continuous homosexual behavior.
• The parent uses their wisdom, experience, and God-given intution to make the best decision for raising their kid.

And what happens?

• A BB member second-guesses the parenting decisions (it ain't your kid, and God put them in charge of the kids, not you). But most disturbing...
• We play the "hate" card. I'm so sick of seeing that. Somehow, simply because we don't want to expose and de-sensitize our kids to this behavior, we have to insinuate that "hate" is a motivation--and we have to throw out the grenade of, "You're just judging."

I have an idea: Since porn is such a part of our culture now, let's take our kids down to the local "adult bookstore," and let them hang out with the folks there. After all, it would be wrong to "quarantine and separate and judge..."

Sorry, jaigner, you're a million miles off on this one. And it's extremely presumptuous of you to play the "hate" and "judgmental" card--when youv'e simply got parents acting along the lines of what they feel God wants them to do in raising righteous kids.

 

[jaigner]

A parent doesn't want their kid to be constantly exposed (and thus de-sensitized) to continuous homosexual behavior.
The parent uses their wisdom, experience, and God-given intution to make the best decision for raising their kid.

*Sigh*

I'm not specifically calling anyone's decision into question here. Gina or whoever can make whatever decision they're led to make. But we're discussing here, and it's perfectly acceptable in the course of discussion that generalities are discussed.

Hey, I was homeschooled. It's a perfectly viable option. But I also have seen a lot of its pitfalls. Overprotecting is one of them. And then there are those who are so afraid of the world that they don't do a bit of good, and then their children get to be grownup and have to suddenly find their way in a world where things don't always look like they do in the neighborhood of make believe. I was one of them. I was turned into a judgmental, cynical, depressed individual. By God's grace alone, I was brought out of that. Some others aren't so fortunate. They crumble.

A BB member second-guesses the parenting decisions (it ain't your kid, and God put them in charge of the kids, not you).

Not telling them what to do. I'm discussing.

We play the "hate" card. I'm so sick of seeing that. Somehow, simply because we don't want to expose and de-sensitize our kids to this behavior, we have to insinuate that "hate" is a motivation--and we have to throw out the grenade of, "You're just judging."

Please read what I wrote for comprehension. I said that I don't think allowing PDA at school is acceptable. It shouldn't be allowed. I'm sure that kind of thing happens in different places, but it isn't allowed in the district where I work.

But there is a huge percentage of the homeschooling population that believes they are actually doing the right thing when they teach their children to spew their venom in the direction of all those with certain sinful lifestyles that are our favorites to hate.

You know as well as I do that Christians can be some of the most hateful people to be around. There are several of those who are on this board regularly.[/QUOTE]

I have an idea: Since porn is such a part of our culture now, let's take our kids down to the local "adult bookstore," and let them hang out with the folks there. After all, it would be wrong to "quarantine and separate and judge..."

That's asinine. I wouldn't want my children exposed to any of those things, but I would also want them to display loving, graceful behavior toward those caught up in such lifestyles.

 

[abcgrad94]

I also have seen a lot of its pitfalls. Overprotecting is one of them. And then there are those who are so afraid of the world that they don't do a bit of good, and then their children get to be grownup and have to suddenly find their way in a world where things don't always look like they do in the neighborhood of make believe. I was one of them. I was turned into a judgmental, cynical, depressed individual. By God's grace alone, I was brought out of that. Some others aren't so fortunate. They crumble.

You know as well as I do that Christians can be some of the most hateful people to be around. There are several of those who are on this board regularly.

[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry your homeschool experience wasn't the greatest, but please don't paint all of us with such a broad brush.

I'm with Gina here. I know my children, and I KNOW for a fact that observing such behavior from their peers on a day-to-day basis would be VERY detrimental to their well-being and development. There is no need for me to knowingly expose them to such, and there is no need to judge parents as overprotective or full of hate simply because they choose to protect their kids a while longer from this kind of sin.

Believe it or not, not all of us homeschoolers are living in caves, afraid to face the "real world." Frankly, I'm sick of that old stereotype and it disappoints me to see it coming from other Christians. Most of us simply want the very best for our children. Sure, there are a few nut cases out there, but the vast majority of homeschoolers I know understand and deal with the "world" as well as, or even better than, their non-homeschooled peers.

 

[jaigner]

I'm sorry your homeschool experience wasn't the greatest, but please don't paint all of us with such a broad brush.

I didn't. Read it again.

I know my children, and I KNOW for a fact that observing such behavior from their peers on a day-to-day basis would be VERY detrimental to their well-being and development.

I already said it's not appropriate for that sort of behavior, regardless of gender, in the hallways at school. Doesn't mean it won't still happen on occasion...or that they won't see it other places, though.

...and there is no need to judge parents as overprotective or full of hate simply because they choose to protect their kids a while longer from this kind of sin.

That's not even close to what I said. Read it again.

Believe it or not, not all of us homeschoolers are living in caves, afraid to face the "real world." Frankly, I'm sick of that old stereotype and it disappoints me to see it coming from other Christians. Most of us simply want the very best for our children. Sure, there are a few nut cases out there, but the vast majority of homeschoolers I know understand and deal with the "world" as well as, or even better than, their non-homeschooled peers.

I've been there. I know what happens. There are good homeschoolers. Then there are those who are living in caves. Some are even living in them even though the parents don't realize it.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Middle school especially is an age where they're going to start questioning you anyhow and they are more vulnerable to what they see and hear.

You know, I have to agree with Gina on this. (and we've disagreed on a lot here lately) Even in my district where PDA are banned and punishable by ISS or detention or whatever, I still don't want my children in middle school, even though my oldest two both attended before I knew better. My baby will never see the inside of our middle school as long as I'm the one with the say.

And you know what? I'm not dealing with boys yet with her. The eldest had her first approach made when she was in 6th grade! even though the boy was just being sweet, its not happening with the youngest. It's been much easier to redirect her attention without the constant bombardment of sexuality a child withstands in public school, even a ps like ours that bans PDA's!

My personal belief is that every middle school child in America should be homeschooled until they are half civilized again. It seems like 3/4ths of them lose any training they got in their younger years and have no impulse control whatsoever. They need more parental input durning these years. Of course, I know its not going to happen, but my children haven't missed anything by not attending public middle school.

Am I overprotective? My kids well tell you "YES! and PTL that she is". Because they've seen plenty. They have plenty of "socialization" and enough friends that they have seen firsthand what happens when no one is around who cares enough to tell a kid "hey, don't drink that", "don't have your hands all over one another". They've seen some of their friends PARENTS who do these things in front of their very confused friends and seen the havoc it causes in their lives. My children appreciate the protection I give them.

Not exposing our children to the constant sin in their peers lives, is an excellant reason in my book to homeschool and to continue homeschooling. Gina's not saying anything controversial. If your children can handle the stress on their beliefs that ps brings, then all well and good. But if I decide mine can't or even if I decide I just don't want that for my child, as I have, then I've made my decision. And its my decision to make.

 

[jaigner]

And its my decision to make.

Nobody's arguing with you on this.

But unless you're willing to personally homeschool all the kids with cruddy parents or who are so poor that homeschooling isn't an option, there will always be public schools. And there will always be people like me trying to make them better and touch a few lives.

 

[Gina B]

Nobody's arguing with you on this.

But unless you're willing to personally homeschool all the kids with cruddy parents or who are so poor that homeschooling isn't an option, there will always be public schools. And there will always be people like me trying to make them better and touch a few lives.

Again, gotta go to work so no time for a major post, just to say this...

That argument doesn't work. I am one who can't afford to homeschool, and I do try to make things better in the schools.

And I will state to the death that, like the bible says, homosexuality is wrong.

I will also state and believe with all my heart that schools are allowing in more sinful behavior and calling/accepting is as normal and a lot of the kids are too young/not strong enough to deal with it.

And that's not the parents fault. A child is a child and it is the job of adults, NOT just parents but all adults that are put in a position of power in that child's life, to lead them in the truth.

Too many public schools fail at that when we hand them over to them for half a day, five days a week.

You can't separate life lessons from what is taught in life. That's silly. No matter what you teach, the surrounding environment and beliefs become a part of it.

 

[jaigner]

I will also state and believe with all my heart that schools are allowing in more sinful behavior and calling/accepting is as normal and a lot of the kids are too young/not strong enough to deal with it.

You can't separate life lessons from what is taught in life. That's silly. No matter what you teach, the surrounding environment and beliefs become a part of it.

This is one of the best posts yet.

You're right that environment is key for young children. But there has to be a point where they have to be secure to experience hostile environments. Proper training in engaging the world is key. They have to be well-trained, not in being leery and judgmental, but in being loving, engaging representatives of Christ's Kingdom.

Otherwise, they're going to crumble when they get into the real world and see how messy it is.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Gina,
I agree with you. I went to public and parochial schools. I was introduced to pornography when I was 6 from other kids at school. The culture of that environment (school) was to be competitavely "ragging" on each other. Whomever came up with the most cutting insult won. Fighting for pecking order was a daily occurance. Sex and drug jokes were common. Now I understand that certain Public Schools may not have these problems I encountered. However, not everyone is well to do. Live in good neighborhoods or in good school districts, etc... Where public schools are in problematic districts and the population of the attendees of the school represent a vulgar population. Parents may indeed want to keep their children from that environment. Public Schools depending on the area or district can act like a bucket full of crabs where anyone attempting to get out over the top are pulled down by the other crabs. Not all schools are like this and the ones that aren't may have a lot to offer however having lived in a poor section of Oakland Ca. I can personally say this environment was detrimental to my personal development and I was exposed to too many sinful things at a young age where I was still attempting to integrate my values learned practically from society and intellectually from my parents.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I agree with the OP view. I heard it put this way by Vodi Bachman (sp?) "If you keep sending your kids to Ceaser to be educated, don't be surprised if they come home as Romans."

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I agree with the OP view. I heard it put this way by Vodi Bachman (sp?) "If you keep sending your kids to Ceaser to be educated, don't be surprised if they come home as Romans."

Voddie Baucham.

Funny you should mention this, because I heard him say this in a non-homeschool related sermon just the other day.